PA to vote on Anti-Gun Bill Package

[Murf_The_Surf]

Originally Posted by Sebastian

I took the NRA alert posted above, and did some analysis on the committee members. This is definitely no time to get complacent, as this could be very close. To summarize, based on my admittedly armature survey:

Likely votes against gun control: 15
Likely votes in favor of gun control: 9
Could go either way: 5

We've had a lot of turnover in the previous election, so there are a lot of reps who's votes could go either way. I think we have a good chance of defeating this in committee, but we'll have to fight. We all know Ed Rendell is a pit bull when it comes to fighting for his agenda. We have to be the same way about fighting for our rights.

Good analysis, Sebastian, thank you!

Let's not forget Boss Tweed Rendell personally will be twisting arms to get this crap passed. Let's work hard on this vote and not take anything for granted.

Also, make sure to take the time to contact the solid anti-gun legislators too, since they need to get a sense for how unpopular are their attacks on our essential liberties.

[Garpman]

Honestly, I am scared.

I am drafting up a letter tomorrow and hope to email them all out over the weekend.

[Sebastian]

It's good to be scared. Scared gun owners win political battles. It's when we get complacent that we lose.

[ThunderingWind]

House Bill 29: Sponsor, State Rep. Jewell Williams (D-Philadelphia). This legislation would turn victims of crime into criminals by failing to report a missing or stolen firearm within 24 hours of discovering the firearm missing.

I understand with the need to drop the criminalization portion of this bill.

But what is wrong with telling the police that your house robbed and your weapons were stolen? Then, next step, letting them know exactly the make, model and serial number of each weapon stolen.

If any of you can quote the founding fathers personal papers to show me that this was expressly discussed by the FF, I would greatly appreciate the information. I can not find any thing yet that would say legislating the notification of a theft and the list of items stolen is an afront to all that we hold sacred.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by Murf_The_Surf

Let's not forget Boss Tweed Rendell personally will be twisting arms to get this crap passed.

I read that Rendell is actually going to be sitting in on the meeting. Isn't that a breach of parliamentary procedure? IMHO committee members that are part of the Legislative shouldn't have to make decisions in the presence of anyone from the Executive. I mean, isn't that coercion?

[Sebastian]

But what is wrong with telling the police that your house robbed and your weapons were stolen? Then, next step, letting them know exactly the make, model and serial number of each weapon stolen.

Nothing. As an FFL holder I'm required to report such things. Nonetheless, why do they want this bill? I'll tell you why. Because they want to use it to prosecute people they consider to be "straw purchasers" whom they have insufficient evidence with which to charge them with that offense. In other states, like Connecticuit, that have passed this, the law promulgates stiff penalties for non-compliance.

So basically, if someone has an old deer rifle, and a pistol in their attic, get burglared, and then fail to report the guns were stolen, he could be facing a felony count under CT law. Does that seem fair to you? It doesn't to me. You don't go charging people with felonies for administrative violations.

This is a bad, bad law. And it has the potential to trap innocent gun owners who aren't aware of what the laws are. It's not one of those laws that are obvious. In some areas, people won't even bother to call the police because they police don't bother to do anything about petty crime.

So don't think "Man, I would call the police if someone stole my guns. This law isn't that bad." Think about the guy that has a gun or two, isn't really that plugged in to the issue, and never though he needed to mention to the police that guns were among the items stolen.

[Emptymag]

Originally Posted by ThunderingWind

I understand with the need to drop the criminalization portion of this bill.

But what is wrong with telling the police that your house robbed and your weapons were stolen? Then, next step, letting them know exactly the make, model and serial number of each weapon stolen.

If any of you can quote the founding fathers personal papers to show me that this was expressly discussed by the FF, I would greatly appreciate the information. I can not find any thing yet that would say legislating the notification of a theft and the list of items stolen is an afront to all that we hold sacred.

There is nothing wrong with reporting a stolen firearm.
I think every decent, law abiding gun owner would do just that.
However, any time you create a law like this, there are situations in which good people can be held liable for something they have no control over.

For example, while I only own a handful of firearms, and know where they are at all times, there may be others who may be every bit the "responsible gun owner", but due to varying circumstances could potentially have a missing firearm go unnoticed for "x" amount of time.

Should I be thrown in prison because someone breaks into my summer home, cuts open my safe, and uses one of my firearms in the commission of a crime?
You and I should not be held responsible for someone else's actions.

[Murf_The_Surf]

Originally Posted by ChamberedRound

I read that Rendell is actually going to be sitting in on the meeting. Isn't that a breach of parliamentary procedure? IMHO committee members that are part of the Legislative shouldn't have to make decisions in the presence of anyone from the Executive. I mean, isn't that coercion?

Yes, but anything that doesn't lead to criminal charges is on the table for Rendell. You'll notice the un-Constitutionality of this legislation doesn't bother the Philly Butterball either.

More importantly, Rendell wouldn't be going in person if he didn't have an idea that he could be successful. This fact alone should spur us to take serious action and to take absolutely nothing for granted.

[Murf_The_Surf]

Originally Posted by Sebastian

Likely votes against gun control: 15
Likely votes in favor of gun control: 9
Could go either way: 5

On your blog, you list Caltigirone as a "maybe." I've been informed he plans to vote against sportsmen and gun owners, and for the Gov.'s gun control measures. I believe that makes your count 15, 10, and 4.

FOAC only considers about 13 to be likely votes against. That analysis would make the count 13, 10, and 6. This is why Rendell thinks he can pull out a victory; he only needs to sway (bully) 4 out of the 6 maybes.

Clearly, we need to let every member of Judiciary know in no uncertain terms how the rank and file grassroots voters feel about these onerous proposals. Keep it polite, but keep it firm.

[Mtbkski]

Originally Posted by ThunderingWind

I understand with the need to drop the criminalization portion of this bill.

But what is wrong with telling the police that your house robbed and your weapons were stolen? Then, next step, letting them know exactly the make, model and serial number of each weapon stolen.

If any of you can quote the founding fathers personal papers to show me that this was expressly discussed by the FF, I would greatly appreciate the information. I can not find any thing yet that would say legislating the notification of a theft and the list of items stolen is an affront to all that we hold sacred.

Originally Posted by Emptymag

For example, while I only own a handful of firearms, and know where they are at all times, there may be others who may be every bit the "responsible gun owner", but due to varying circumstances could potentially have a missing firearm go unnoticed for "x" amount of time.

I too wondered why this was a big deal. Then I had someone explain it to me a little differently.

As Emptymag put it, "Do you check to see that all your firearms are still in your house every 24 hours." Cause if you don't. And when you ran to Sheetz earlier, and the neighbor kid, or your little nephew, came in and stole one of your pistols cause "you have so many, you won't miss one", to sell for drugs. Guess what? In a couple hours, you will be guiltily of a crime that you never even knew was committed. That is what is wrong with this House Bill.

I agree. I think most of us would report it instantly. If we knew about it. But what if it was stolen and you didn't know. Not all crooks tear your house apart. It may be someone you know, that knows right where to go. Sad to say, but possible.