Are YOU Tired of Paying to Exercise YOUR ‘Right to Keep & Bear Arms’? Aug 26, 2010

[WhiteFeather]

Are YOU Tired of Paying to Exercise YOUR ‘Right to Keep and Bear Arms’?



For twelve years Pennsylvanians have had to endure the tortuous and unwieldy operations of a multi-million dollar swindle involving a direct affront to our Constitutional Right to Bear Arms. The Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) has, arguably, violated federal law, past U.S. Supreme Court precedent (Murdock v. Pennsylvania-1943) and pushed gun dealers out of business or into bankruptcy. NOW WE have the opportunity to challenge the PICS system and get our grievances on the official record. On Aug 26th PA House of Representatives Republican Policy Committee will hold a hearing about problems with PA Instant Check System (see the notice below).



The Republican Policy Committee will hold a public hearing on Thursday, August 26 ,2010 to discuss the PICS and NICS gun registration systems (State vs. National Instant Check System (NICS)). The hearing will begin at 1:00 PM and will be held at the New Stanton Hunt Club, 200 West Pennsylvania Avenue, New Stanton, PA



We need your help in a variety of ways. We need to document cases of abuse by the PICS system
such as (but not limited to):

1. Purchasing a gun and getting stuck in research for days OR ‘undetermined’ status.

2. Being denied when purchasing a second gun OR a denial issued when purchases are close together (days or weeks).

3. When challenging a denial of a LTCF or firearm purchase the PA State Police about why you were denied you do not receive information on the reasons for your denial as required by law.

4. After correcting reasons for denial you keep getting denied for the same reason, purchase after purchase.

5. Have you had problems when interacting with police and your firearms are not listed in the PSP database?

6. Have you corrected the problems with your record and you still had a problem when attempting to obtain a License to Carry a Concealed Firearm?

7. Or other problems with using the PICS system.



Please send us an e-mail with your story (please document your case) and add your contact information (name / phone) to: picsabuses@yahoo.com



If you would just like to testify at the hearing please also contact us at the same address ASAP.


Please try to attend the hearing ‘IF’ at all possible, your attendance will send a strong message, that its way past time to correct this mismanagement & waste of taxpayer resources.




Additional reasons as to why these hearings needed and what is wrong with the current PICS system?



Pennsylvania pays for instant check – a job that most states let the feds do for FREE. Perhaps this is why PICS has never issued a cost-benefit analysis.

The Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) from 1998 to 2008 has cost the tax payers in excess of estimated 130,000,000.00 dollars (yes, that IS ‘millions’) to administer to date for background checks for all firearm purchases. The federal NICS would do the same job for no additional cost to taxpayers. It also costs on average $6 million a year for administration and cost to up keep the illegal gun database system.

we would rather see the 6 million spent on keeping criminal locked up instead or spent on employing more police officers rather than just feeding the beast to keep a data base of firearm owners along with all the abuse associated with it misuse.



You can see the results of all that (our) money spent in protecting us from supposed criminals buying guns from FFL dealers. Do the math! It is important to note that the monies spent are ONLY to identify prohibited individuals during the firearms purchase process and are NOT related to the follow up legal and court costs to prosecute these individuals.

1.1998-2004 a total of 57,283 people denied.
2.1998-2004 a total arrests of 1,181 people
3.1998-2004 a total conviction of ONLY 637 people
4.1998-2004 a total referral to the ATF for concurrent jurisdiction of ONLY 59 people


The PA State Police have wasted nearly $130 million operating the duplicative Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) system between 1998 and 2008, which would have been done at ‘no’ cost to gun owners or Pennsylvania by the National Instant Check system, a part of which is the retention and maintenance of an illegal database of gun owners. How many crimes have the state police solved by the staggering amount of money spent?



We have an opportunity to show the legislature and our state the mistakes and misdeeds of this system. The question for each of you is ‘can you and will you help us’?

[WhiteFeather]

Here are the directions to the hearing

Directions to Hempfield Hunt Club, 200 W. Pennsylvania Ave., New Stanton, PA

From points West: Take I-76 East to Exit 75. Go 19 miles. Merge onto I-70 West via Exit 75 toward New Stanton/Washington PA. Go 1.2 miles. Take Exit 57A towards Hunker. Merge onto New Stanton Ruffsdale Road. Turn sharp left onto West Pennsylvania Ave. (Club on left hand side)

From points East: Take I-76 west. Take I-70 West/PA Turnpike toward Pittsburgh. Take the I-70 West Exit (Exit 75) toward US 119. Merge onto I-70 West toward New Stanton/Washington, PA. Take Exit 57A toward Hunker. Merge onto New Stanton Ruffsdale Road. Turn sharp left onto West Pennsylvania Ave. Club on left hand side.




SAVING THIS SPOT FOR UPDATES

[Azzy]

Part of me would rather let a state hold that database then to let the feds do the same. Unless they get shuffled over already.

[Activist]

Dear AZ,

The feds are already prohibited from retaining any of the information except for the simple transaction number.

Here in Pennsylvania this information comes up in traffic stops and a myriad of other places where there is interaction between law enforcement and citizens. In many cases this prejudices this interaction and presents a highly charged environment that has led to the abuse of civil rights.

Let's not forget the number of individuals who have posted on this forum who have had their property seized because it was not listed in the "state" database.

For me I am not comfortable nor will I be satisfied with having to pay to exercise the constitutional freedom that those in Arlington Cemetery and our forefathers fought to protect.

[Activist]

Dear AZ,

The feds are already prohibited from retaining any of the information except for the simple transaction number.

Here in Pennsylvania this information comes up in traffic stops and a myriad of other places where there is interaction between law enforcement and citizens. In many cases this prejudices this interaction and presents a highly charged environment that has led to the abuse of civil rights.

Let's not forget the number of individuals who have posted on this forum who have had their property seized because it was not listed in the "state" database.

For me I am not comfortable nor will I be satisfied with having to pay to exercise the constitutional freedom that those in Arlington Cemetery and our forefathers fought to protect.

"No State shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor." --Murdock v. Pennsylvania,
319 US 105, US Supreme Court, [1943].

[Azzy]

PA is not supposed to retain them either. you think the feds are not? How much else do they do that is total BS and against the law?

[Activist]

Azzy,

Two different animals we're talking about here.

The PSP is ignoring the law and not being held accountable by the legislature. IF the PICS system goes away what do you think goes away with it?

The NICS system is under the review of Congress and hearings were held that concluded the will of Congress was to destroy all but the transaction number. This is why there is a National Tracing Center and the PSP refuses to admit that this avenue exists so that guns are to be traced from the manufacturer to the purchaser.

When you couple the above with the fact that 38 other states use the NICS system without problems 'and' they DON'T pay for firearms checks to exercise their constitutional right it should be clear which is the better choice.

That is not to say there are not concerns with the NICS but the concerns with PICS FAR overshadows them.

I also point out that the PSP are working behind the scenes to call for a complete replacement of their computer system and in the process will call for a steep increase in the background check costs to $20 per gun (2 separate charges of $10 each).

I have attached the Murdock v. Pennsylvania case for any and all to read. The PSP position on this is a direct affront to the authority of the U.S. Supreme Court.

[knight0334]

per Murdock, the two following items need to be addressed as well.

1. transporting in a vehicle so that one can practice the right of openly carrying (18.61.6106)
2. the restriction upon openly carrying in a City of the First Class without a license (18.61.6108)

[Activist]

Knight0334,

You are ABSOLUTELY correct. Also, per Murdock one could make the case that our civil rights restoration process is inadequate as well.

If you examine the posts by Whitefeather you will see the list of legislation that has been introduced for us. HB 750 corrects much of the transportation of firearms problems (at least it is a good start from where we are now) and next year (if we can persuade gun owners to get involved in elections this year) we can work on the equal protections aspects that Philadelphia seems to want to ignore.

[knight0334]

Knight0334,

You are ABSOLUTELY correct. Also, per Murdock one could make the case that our civil rights restoration process is inadequate as well.

If you examine the posts by Whitefeather you will see the list of legislation that has been introduced for us. HB 750 corrects much of the transportation of firearms problems (at least it is a good start from where we are now) and next year (if we can persuade gun owners to get involved in elections this year) we can work on the equal protections aspects that Philadelphia seems to want to ignore.

6108 is also in violation of:

1. Article 4, Section 2 Section 2: "The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states."


2. Amendment XIV, Section 1: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

State laws, rights, and privileges must apply equally across the entire state.