Scope Suggestions Please

[addicted2freedom]

I've read a lot of scope reviews and suggestions here and on other forums, but have become more confused as I learn more! I was hoping that I could get some suggestions for a scope on my rifle.

Rifle: .223, 18" AR-15 rifle.

Intended Use: Push it to the distance limits for target shooting. I've been told a .223 can go 1000-1200 yards. I'd also like the flexibility of going down to 100 yards. A rule of thumb that I found was 1x per 100 yards, so I'm looking at a 1-12x scope (?)

Budget: $500-1000. I'd like to stay closer to $500, but will spend the money for quality. I, however, don't want to overkill for my purposes.

Brand: I'm not a brand groupie as long as the quality and durability is adequate.

I'd like this puppy to last for as long as possible, so I'm following the advice of buying a good scope once.

Thanks for any help!

[rwilson452]

A .223 will travel out to 1000 yards + but Accurately? don't think so too light too slow. All the 1000 yards people I know are shooting 6mm or a little bigger. Leupold is considered the best I think Nikon comes in next. you can get a Nikon side focus in your price range. I have a 4-18 SF that I like.
I use it on my varmint rifle.

Originally Posted by addicted2freedom

I've read a lot of scope reviews and suggestions here and on other forums, but have become more confused as I learn more! I was hoping that I could get some suggestions for a scope on my rifle.

Rifle: .223, 18" AR-15 rifle.

Intended Use: Push it to the distance limits for target shooting. I've been told a .223 can go 1000-1200 yards. I'd also like the flexibility of going down to 100 yards. A rule of thumb that I found was 1x per 100 yards, so I'm looking at a 1-12x scope (?)

Budget: $500-1000. I'd like to stay closer to $500, but will spend the money for quality. I, however, don't want to overkill for my purposes.

Brand: I'm not a brand groupie as long as the quality and durability is adequate.

I'd like this puppy to last for as long as possible, so I'm following the advice of buying a good scope once.

Thanks for any help!

[4XLT]

[quote=rwilson452;296959]A .223 will travel out to 1000 yards + but Accurately? don't think so too light too slow. All the 1000 yards people I know are shooting 6mm or a little bigger. Leupold is considered the best I think Nikon comes in next.

i agree leupold and nikon are top notch, also dont forget about burris, any one of these in there better lines are in your range and will last you for years. as far as range i would say you could have a blast long ranging that thing at about 600 or less, still will be a challenge .. good shooting

[addicted2freedom]

Thanks for the fast feedback guys! What mag would you guys suggest?

[Tomcat088]

Just for input, I think this needs to get moved to the optics section, but anyway. Dude, have you ever shot 1,000 yards? I ain't saying that a .223 can't go that far, but with the right rifle and the right load and people that have done long distance shooting for a long time, 800 yards is pushing it for accuracy. 800 yards is accomplished with hand loading bullet that are so long they will NOT fit in the magazine and must be loaded one at a time in most rifles chambered for .223. Are you going to be reloading? If you aren't, I don't think you can get it done with an 18" tube and factory ammo. Even with some hot handloads, I think you're gonna have heck getting that far in an 18" tube. Here's video of scotty taking his AR to 680 yards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJWLP81qCAE . This is one of him taking it 860 yards with some 75 grain bullets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B9NkQldeu0 .

Keep in mind that if you want to attempt something like this, you MUST have the proper twist rate to stabilize those longer bullets. Also realize that if you have that twist rate in your barrel, it will OVERSTABILIZE the lighter bullets. Yes, bullets can be overstabilized. What happens is that at the peak of the trajectory, the bullet will not nose over correctly and will fly nose up. The nose of the bullet will act like a wing in a way and cause a pressure differential that will cause a slight amount of lift. This means that after the peak of the trajectory, the bullet will hit high and right from what the calculations should show. It's not something that you want to happen or that will help with accuracy and some bullets might appear to keyhole on paper. You also have to realize that he's doing this with a 24" barrel. I'm not sure that you could get those heavy bullets that far with an 18" barrel. Just know what you're getting into. You can shoot that far with a semi auto rifle, just relialize that you're probably gonna ruin some brass and run into the complications of reloading for a semi auto. Alot of guys that use reloads in AR's also like to use adjustable gas blocks. I'm not an AR guy, so I don't know alot about them, just saying you might want to look into it and find out more about it.

You seem to have a good budget for a scope. Lots of guys will probably tell you to look into the Leupold Mark 4's, you can get a used one under $1K. You can get a new one if you look around enough in the $1100 range. Some people might mention looking for a used IOR for around $1K. You can find some lower down Swarovski's for under a grand and some Zeiss scopes too. Read about what you're getting into from people that have used them. I have known some guys with some Swarovski's that broke 10 shots into the scope. It can happen with any scope, but you just need to know what you're getting. Some people like them some people don't, from what I've read (don't have experience with them) some of them break. If you're looking at something in the mid range price range ($300-500), you could look at the Nikon Buckmasters, Bushnell Elite 4200's. I own a Millett LRS, it looks good and has some nice features, it has a 35mm tube and a 56mm front objective. Look in the optics for some pics and a little more info about it. I haven't shot with it yet because it's going on a rifle that I'm currently building, I'll let you know more after I got it on the rifle.

I don't want to burst your bubble about taking the .223 long range, just want you to know what you're getting into. Shooting to 1K has to be taken seriously, and has to be reloaded in the right rifle, otherwise there ain't a chance.

Edit: You might also look for some Schmidt & Benders. They're good glass, some of the cheaper ones won't have all the features of the more expensive ones or some of the same reticles, but they're considered a high end scope that the long distance guys like. I think that all the night force scopes are gonna be out of what you want to pay. I wouldn't waste my time with putting one on a .223 anyway.

[Tomcat088]

Oh and your question about magnification. It's all a preference thing. Some guys don't like to shoot much over 10X because they like to stay on target and the chance of seeing some trace in their scope. 10X is still enough to be able to quarter a 40" target. Alot of guys, myself included like more than that, at least 16X. Keep in mind that once you get to 20X and over that, it doesn't always help. Mirage will start to kill you at those distances, and can make the target deceiving (another reason that some guys like the 10x because they don't see all the mirage on the target). At a certain magnification the resolution will be bad enough that it won't matter that it's bigger, you still won't like the sight picture. Look through some different magnifications on some halfway decent scopes and see what you like. I would say that a fair magnfication that is kind of middle of the road is around 16x.

[addicted2freedom]

Thanks for that in-depth explanation Tomcat088! I've never fired an AR-15 at all. The 1k range was based on readings I've found on the internet. I didn't buy the AR-15 with the intention of shooting 1k yards though. I just want to make sure I get a scope adequate for the max range of the rifle... which sounds to be around 500 or 600 yards without too much trouble (reloading, etc.). That should be loads of fun for me.

Thanks again for the feedback. Now I can narrow my search down. Ammo, tripod, case, and mags are on the way. I should be ready to go soon. Exciting!

P.S. Those videos are sick!

[luckyned7]

Just giggling alittle here. Not at you but at me. I just went through all that with an Encore in 223. Been shooting all my life but never really shot long distance with anything..PA..you know...no prairie dogs at 500 yards.

I bought a Bushmaster and tricked it out for my-way of thinking as a 'home-defense rifle' with a HUGE amount of help from folks here. I then felt the pull of long-ranging it with the caliber..since I jumped into the reloading and had all the brass and bullets and was reading White Feather to the kid..BIG MISTAKE-lol. Everyone lied about that Encore..lol..You can fiqure 200 dollars a yard. Just the way I see it , as a poor-puke. Wanna see to a 100=$200..1k=$2000. I've bought more shooting aids in the last 6 mnths then I ever owned in my life.

If you bothered to read this far..I make under a 50k a year and my advice is if you going to buy a scope....Be sure you need one and how much magnification you must have and then go BIG$ and never look back!

[Tomcat088]

If you're only going to go out to 500 or 600 yards, and not shooting at small targets where you need alot of resolution, I probably wouldn't spend $1K on a scope. If you were going to reload and get pretty serious about it, then I'd say go for it. I think that you would probably be pretty happy with a mid range scope in the $500 range like a nice Bushnell elite 4200 or something that would be on par with that. For $450 I like my LRS, but as I said I haven't gotten to test it out yet. I know for a fact that you can see out to 500 or 600 yards clearly with either of those scopes, and with some other scopes like the Nikon Buckmaster, etc. I think that you will probably be best served on buying more ammunition and spending the time behind the trigger. Ammunition is getting so expensive and it's probably just gonna go up. If you're interested in getting into reloading just to save some money and a little hobby to waste some time, you might want to spend the money you were gonna spend on the scope on a progressive reloader and roll your own. There will be differing opinions, but the scopes in the $500 range should get you to 500 or 600 yards alright. I don't know, I personally just don't care to spend $1,000 on a scope to put on a rifle that won't shoot over 500 yards or so. If it was a dedicated prairie dog rifle or something like that, ok, maybe, but like you said no 500 yard prairie dogs in your area.

[addicted2freedom]

Originally Posted by luckyned7

Just giggling alittle here. Not at you but at me. I just went through all that with an Encore in 223. Been shooting all my life but never really shot long distance with anything..PA..you know...no prairie dogs at 500 yards.

I bought a Bushmaster and tricked it out for my-way of thinking as a 'home-defense rifle' with a HUGE amount of help from folks here. I then felt the pull of long-ranging it with the caliber..since I jumped into the reloading and had all the brass and bullets and was reading White Feather to the kid..BIG MISTAKE-lol. Everyone lied about that Encore..lol..You can fiqure 200 dollars a yard. Just the way I see it , as a poor-puke. Wanna see to a 100=$200..1k=$2000. I've bought more shooting aids in the last 6 mnths then I ever owned in my life.

If you bothered to read this far..I make under a 50k a year and my advice is if you going to buy a scope....Be sure you need one and how much magnification you must have and then go BIG$ and never look back!

I don't make much either. Just been saving for this for a while. Plus Uncle Sam is sending me a check. haha

Never heard of White Feather. Looks like an interesting read. I'll have to check it out some time.