Tennessee open carrier detained Belle Meade Al Gore 's home town black powder pistol

[kwikrnu]

I walked with my Navy model 1851 black powder pistol. It was loaded with hornady .44 cal ball or .454, triple 7 powder, and ccc percusion caps. One chamber was left empty for safety. It was carried in my hand as law requires. I wore a reflective vest and an arm band and ankle band for safety as it was nearly dark when I began the walk.

I walked north on Belle Meade blvd against traffic and to the median as required by ordinance. I reached Harding road and changed direction to the south. I I almost reached the first break in the median a cop car stoped and the officer told me to put the gun down. Against my objection he searched me (inside of my pockets). He also called in the serial # of the handgun which I told him I objected to. The handgun is loaded and his fiddling around with it made me uncomfortable. Two other cops also showed up. I was held 15 minutes and released to go on my way.

All of the Belle Meade cars are supposed to be equiped with video and audio. I'll do a public information request and post their audio and video and the names and badge numbers and police car numbers of the cops involved.

Edited to add video and audio of complaints

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

One of the persons complaining said I looked like a doctor and waved.

first complaint

The woman saw me from a car and said I was threatening her and her children because I carried a handgun like the law stated.

griffith complaint part 1

grifith complaint part 2

griffith complaint part 3


Tennessee State Law

TCA 39-17-1314 City laws regulating guns preempt state laws if they were made before April 8, 1986.

Belle Meade ordinances

Title 11 Chapter 6 section 602 specifically states the carry of an army or navy model pistol is an exception, and it must be carried openly in the hand not in a holster.






One thing nice about black powder is they can't unload it and make you play hide and go seek with the ammo.

Here are the reports.

[falcn]

What a weird exception - I question whether they really meant the old revolvers....simply stating "army or navy pistol" doesn't really mean much to me, I could easily think they mean you are ok carrying a 1911 or M9.

[kwikrnu]

Originally Posted by falcn

What a weird exception - I question whether they really meant the old revolvers....simply stating "army or navy pistol" doesn't really mean much to me, I could easily think they mean you are ok carrying a 1911 or M9.

The law was made to prevent blacks and poor whites from carry handguns. The KKK ran the TN Legislature in the 1870's. They also banned the sale of all handguns except the army or navy pistol.

The army and navy pistols were heavy, large, six shot, black powder pistols. They chose those guns because people were less likely to carry them and they were not easy to conceal. I have several handguns and would not feel safe carrying them in Belle Meade because I think the law prohibits it. There are several late 1800 court cases which were heard by the TN Supreme Court and the army navy laws were upheld as constitutional.

[beefcakeb0]

get used to it, the recent ruling from the GA fed judge that says mere presence is reason for detainment, which is bs. but that needs overturning fo sho

[steveforopen]

So to clear up the ambiguity...

You were walking around town with a black powder revolver IN YOUR HAND, and were stopped by police?

If this is true, then I would say kudos to Belle Meade police.

Frankly, I don't care if you were trolling antiquated TN law. I'm a huge fan of trolling. If the facts of this story are correct, I would rather you were stopped than not stopped.

To openly carry a firearm in a holster or slung across one's back is one thing. To weild a revolver in one's hand as you walk across the modern world is another, legal or not.

[kwikrnu]

Originally Posted by steveforopen

So to clear up the ambiguity...

You were walking around town with a black powder revolver IN YOUR HAND, and were stopped by police?

If this is true, then I would say kudos to Belle Meade police.

Frankly, I don't care if you were trolling antiquated TN law. I'm a huge fan of trolling. If the facts of this story are correct, I would rather you were stopped than not stopped.

To openly carry a firearm in a holster or slung across one's back is one thing. To weild a revolver in one's hand as you walk across the modern world is another, legal or not.

If the law states that it may only be carried openly in the hand then that is how one must carry.

If you want to stop and verify it is an army or navy model pistol I can understand that. That is a one minute stop.

However, these cops did not know the Belle Meade Ordinance. The cop who searched me did more than the pat down down allowed in Terry v Ohio. He placed his hands in my pockets. He also called in the the serial number of the gun to see if it was stolen which he had no RAS or PC to do.

[kwikrnu]

Originally Posted by beefcakeb0

get used to it, the recent ruling from the GA fed judge that says mere presence is reason for detainment, which is bs. but that needs overturning fo sho

That was for concealed carry. This was open carry. GA it is an affirmative defense if you have a permit. In Belle Meade it is an exception to carry the army or navy pistol openly in the hand. In Tennessee code the Legislature allows cities to enforce their own laws if they were in effect before April 8, 1986 as this one was.

This is closer to NM Alamogordo. Open carry was legal for St. john, yet he was searched and detained 10 minutes. He settled for $21,000.


I'm going to speak with an attorney and find out if it is worth taking this to the sixth.

[The_Game]

Originally Posted by steveforopen

So to clear up the ambiguity...

You were walking around town with a black powder revolver IN YOUR HAND, and were stopped by police?

If this is true, then I would say kudos to Belle Meade police.

Frankly, I don't care if you were trolling antiquated TN law. I'm a huge fan of trolling. If the facts of this story are correct, I would rather you were stopped than not stopped.

To openly carry a firearm in a holster or slung across one's back is one thing. To weild a revolver in one's hand as you walk across the modern world is another, legal or not.

So to clear up the ambiguity, you'd rather someone break the law than follow it, just because you're uncomfortable with the requirements for following it?

[falcn]

Was there a purpose to your demonstration? Are you trying to lobby to change the preemption laws in TN and get OC/CC legal everywhere equally - or were you just trying for a payday, or just wanted to do it because it was legal?

[kwikrnu]

Originally Posted by falcn

Was there a purpose to your demonstration? Are you trying to lobby to change the preemption laws in TN and get OC/CC legal everywhere equally - or were you just trying for a payday, or just wanted to do it because it was legal?

I definately don't like the Belle Meade ordinance. I'd much rather carry a handgun in a holster or on a sling.

I don't like the Tennessee law which allows cities and municipalities to have their own laws. I'm for complete State pre-emption and uniform laws accross the State.

I need the exercise and Belle Meade is a couple miles away and is a great place to walk.

I did it because I can.

I think there was no RAS for the stop. No reason for the 15 minute detention. There was no reason to run the serial # on my pistol, and there was no RAS to search inside my pockets. I'll consult my attorney and see if he thinks I would have a case for the Belle Meade incident.