My negative encounter with an OC'er today.

[bigbear]

I do not know if this person is a member here or not.

I was working tonight, and stopped in at a local convenience store to get a cup of coffee and to check to make sure the place wasn't being robbed. As I pulled into the lot, I observed a guy walking around the back of the only other vehicle in the lot and walking into the store. I parked my police car, and saw that the other car's inspection was expired.

I walked in and got my cup of coffee and walked to the counter. I saw the guy was paying for food, and lo and behold, he's carrying a Smith and Wesson M&P. I wanted to ask him if a.) the trigger on that was like the Sigma, and b.) if that was his car, so I could let him know that his inspection was out.

I asked, very politely, "Excuse me, Sir, can I ask you a question?"

Out came the digital recorder. "Am I being detained?"

No, I tried to assure him. He then told me that if that was the case, he wasn't talking to me, and walked away. Even the clerk thought he was rude. The term the clerk used was "asshole." While I agreed to myself, all I said was, "He doesn't have to talk to me, that's fine." I paid for my coffee and left. The guy was back at the food counter waiting for his order.

I left, and parked across the street to see who was driving the car I saw. Sure enough, a few minutes later, here comes the gunstore commando, straight to his car, and out onto the roadway. I pulled him over.

That didn't go well, either. I identified myself by name and department, informed him that we were being recorded, as per state law, and he said, "That's fine, I'm recording, too." I asked for his driver's license, and he wanted to know why. I told him I'd explain that to him after I had obtained his license. He refused at first, until I asked him, again, very politely, "Sir, are you refusing to display your license, registration, and insurance card as is required by Section 6308 of the Pennsylvania Vehicle Code?" He then provided his information. I told him why he was being stopped and told him I'd be with him in a minute. I wrote out the ticket, and when I got back to his car, he asked me, "Can I tell you why I haven't gotten this done yet?"

I told him that I didn't want him to have to violate his Constitutional Rights by talking to me, and I had no desire to hear any explaination that he had. Then he asked me if "maybe he couldn't get a warning this time."

Really? Um... "Sir, that's what I was trying to talk to you about at the store, you know, when you decided that talking to me was beneath you. Sign here, please." I gave him his copy and away I started to walk. "Wait, can you explain this to me?" he asked.

"Sir, do you read, write and understand the English Language?" I asked. Yeah, he responded. "Then I'm not required, by law, to explain it to you. It's got instructions on the back. Pull out safely."

It got me thinking, and pissed. While I don't know, for sure, that he is a member here, it sure sounded like a textbook example of what some members here say on a daily basis. And when I first joined this site, I thought, "Great, a site with like-minded people who enjoy guns and are law-abiding and a group of people that I can talk to that won't think I'm nuts for carrying, owning, shooting, etc."

Then I joined. And since then, I've seen a double standard that would make most liberals wince in shame. I've seen members here that hate police, and bash them at every chance they get, for 'interfering' in their lives. But let them be the victim of a crime, and they expect instant response, automatic arrests, and full punishment to the extent of the law. However, let them be stopped, and whatever violation they've committed should be ignored because they are basically good people and it's a small thing anyway. That's why I usually only get onto the lounge forums anymore.

All I know is this: This encounter left a bad taste towards this one guy. I hope not all OC'ers are like this, but from what I've read on here, I guess this will be the rule instead of the exception.

I have my flame suit on, so proceed.

[Wiley-X]

Sorry but I'm one of those that really don't care for the modern police, I've just seen too many abuses of the rules by the police.

If the event happened as you described, I will go along with you that the guy was plain rude. He lept to the conclusion, as reasonable as it may be, that you were going to bust his chops about his gun.

In my previous life, I spent a lot of time poking around in places where I wasn't supposed to be. In those situations, if someone speaks to you, never react as if you are doing anything wrong because they probably just want to ask if you know the score of today's big game. The same is true for this idiot. For all he knew, you wanted to ask where he got his Mickey Mouse jacket or if he had tried the cherry mocha frappachino and if he'd recommend it.

[GunLawyer001]

Based on your characterization of the incident, sounds like the guy was hoist on his own petard.

To be fair, a lot of cop/gun-carrying-civilian encounters go downhill fast, so the citizen might be excused a couple degrees of assholery; but there's never a good reason to jump ahead to the confrontational part before that particular cop makes it confrontational.

Sounds like you were fair, and I'm to be cheated of a satisfying cop-bashing opportunity. Dang.

[emsjeep]

Sounds like you acted appropriately. Assuming the worst of someone didn't play out too well for this guy. I understand why he might be on edge, but he jumped way ahead of himself. I worry that you were discourteous to him during the stop to a small degree, even if he deserved it. Otherwise, I will say that this situation is not born of arrogance but of fear, fear developed by this OC'er from potential previous encounters and multitudes of postings and vidoes and accounts off the wall COPs out to play games with the reputations, futures and lives of law abiding citizens, don't take it personally, and don't do anything to play into the stereotype he, and others like him, are afraid of.

This thread sould be 10 pages long in 8-12 hours...

[Franky4Fingers]

Originally Posted by bigbear

And when I first joined this site, I thought, "Great, a site with like-minded people who enjoy guns and are law-abiding and a group of people that I can talk to that won't think I'm nuts for carrying, owning, shooting, etc."

Then I joined. And since then, I've seen a double standard that would make most liberals wince in shame. I've seen members here that hate police, and bash them at every chance they get, for 'interfering' in their lives. But let them be the victim of a crime, and they expect instant response, automatic arrests, and full punishment to the extent of the law. However, let them be stopped, and whatever violation they've committed should be ignored because they are basically good people and it's a small thing anyway. That's why I usually only get onto the lounge forums anymore.

All I know is this: This encounter left a bad taste towards this one guy. I hope not all OC'ers are like this, but from what I've read on here, I guess this will be the rule instead of the exception.

This actually has nothing to do with people here, specifically. You pretty much just described all humans, everywhere, throughout time. Everyone jumps to conclusions, assumes, thinks they are always right, snobbish, and walks around with their "I'm always right" hats on. That's dealing with the public for ya.

Originally Posted by bigbear

I have my flame suit on, so proceed.

For what? Providing everything happened just the way you said, you did absolutely NOTHING wrong. This guy was the prick. And I'm sure whatever forum he belongs (becuase you know he does) he's posting this right now. People will be saying that he did "great" with his voice recorder, then at the end, he'll say about how he shit the bed one day and was busy cleaning it for a month straight and thats why he couldn't get his car inspected and your a jerk for giving him a ticket......even though this was entirely not his fault (rolls eyes)


This is actually kind of funny, we're getting an opposite side of the table OC story. I actually enjoyed that concept, but not that you had a rough time. That sucks.

Keep up the good work, officer. And try not to let the morons get you down, as you know, they are everywhere...what can you do?

[4XLT]

illl tell ya what man, that guy most likely is a member here and was probably so nervous he just over reacted. he learned a valuable lesson on a few things tonight.

1. no need to over react when a LEO wants to ask you a question, it might save you some agony and money later.

2. LEO's do not have to listen to what he has to say either, lol


if indeed he is a member i hope he realises he over reacted, also i hope that you realise it also, most likely from nerves with a first time dealing with a LEO while carrying, or maybe his rights have been trampled before?

either way, you did nothing wrong and i commend you for apparently wanting to give him a warning first before just filling out a ticket.. kudos !

[emsjeep]

Consider, amonst all the other stuff, that this has made the rounds of every firearms board in the United States. http://paopencarry.org/forum/dont-ta...5.html#pid3638

You could be a great COP trying to be nice and letting him know his inspection is up, or you could be using it to start a conversation he doesn't want to have that might lead to you getting a good look into his windows, finding out he has been drinking or any of 1000 other things. I guess one of the downsides of being in uniform is that no one ever really knows what your intentions are, and for people who are a little slow (or inexperianced and nervous)...and easily frightened by situations they don't understand, yeah I could see someone just wanting to be away from the Police as fast as possible...

[YllwFvr]

Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers

This guy was the prick.

This

This is actually kind of funny, we're getting an opposite side of the table OC story. I actually enjoyed that concept, but not that you had a rough time.

This

Keep up the good work, officer. And try not to let the morons get you down, as you know, they are everywhere...what can you do?

This

Great post. Flame suit not required from this OCer. I believe you handled it well.

I wont pick apart the encounter any further. General feeling is you done right son!

P.S.
Hope to hear this guys side of it too! Its gonna be grreeeaaaaat!

[ImminentDanger]

I applaud your approach.... very decent of you to try to warn him of the inspection violation without issuing a ticket...

Nothing wrong with your interest in his M&P trigger....

However, as 'emsjeep' suggested, that reaction is the result of other 'BROTHERS IN BLUE' giving OCer's a hard time without cause.... You can't really blame him for being apprehensive of your 'out of the blue' interest.....

Sometimes, the stick-togetherness of cops is going to bring unwanted (and even unwarranted) ricochets of attitude...

Still, he could (and should) have been a bit more friendly long enough to see where the conversation was going....

And I suspect your Back-Atcha-Buddy attitude in response to his question (regarding the ticket) will likely set his attitude just a bit deeper....

I can understand the tit-for-tat response, but I'm not sure anyone benefitted from either response...


...
ID

[Agent Smith]

Heh, I started reading the thread title thinking to myself this was going to be another negative encounter with a LEO, but to my surprise, it was a LEO with a negative encounter with an OC'er. Something we don't see very often!

I think he did definitely over react, and was plain rude; however, even though not all LEO's have bad intentions, with all the negative encounters lately, I can't necessarily lay too much blame on him. He should have at least listened to what you had to say before jumping to conclusions - at least that's what I would have done.