Open carry/ revocation of LTCF after "302"

[27hand]

I was reading another thread asking where people have openly carried and how it went.

I have a question regarding the retention of your LTCF if you have been improperly arrested and "302'd" by an officer that doesn't know the law.

I was reapplying for my LTCF last year (Feb 06) when some guy from Colorado came in and asked if open carry was legal in Pa.

The young man issueing LTCF in Allegheny in Feb 06 told the non resident applicant it was illegal to open carry in Pa.

I interjected it was in fact legal and you didn't need a LTCF to openly carry in Pa..

The young deputy? told me that if he saw me carrying openly on a Pittsburgh street, he would arrest and "302" me or anyone openly carrying. I never got to the point of city of the first class Etc, etc.

A coworker of his (sheriff) walked in. The young man telling me it was illegal asked his buddy what he would do seeing someone openly carrying and this young man also stated arrest and "302" is the action he would take.

So, question.

If you were arrested for legally carrying openly and one of these two fine young officers who evidently didn't know the law, arrested you and "302'd" you, would this not essentially make you ineligible to ever carry concealed again or would you after spending a substantial buck on your chosen legal counsel have recourse to have the arrest negated and get "relicensed".
Doesn't the Sheriff's office have the right to disqualify you from carrying (or owning) a gun if you have been detained for "mental observation" in light of the VT shootings?


Anyones thoughts?

27hand

[RoyJackson]

Well, I guess it's time to contact your state representative and request the 302's be restricted to a judge (WITH the "defendant" being present)
I also suggest you contact the boss of these two men and ensure he corrects his personnel before there is a lawsuit.

BTW, do you know the cops' names?

[Pa. Patriot]

Well, since there is no law broken how in the hell is the LEO going to file a 302?

I don't think it would get to a judge because they won't have a law to "arrest" you for. If they charge you with another disturbance or "terroristic threatening", etc. the SC of PA has case law directly supporting you so it would, in theory, not get far in court. So in that worse case scenario, it it were to happen, once the charges are dismissed so is the supporting "reason" for the 302.
JMHO, not legal advice, etc etc

[27hand]

Originally Posted by RoyJackson

Well, I guess it's time to contact your state representative and request the 302's be restricted to a judge (WITH the "defendant" being present)
I also suggest you contact the boss of these two men and ensure he corrects his personnel before there is a lawsuit.

BTW, do you know the cops' names?

No I don't know the name of the officer. I left just shaking my head over the response.

I think I was pretty new to this forum and although having read internet law and speaking to a lawyer at some training classes, I didn't have "Commonwealth vs Hawkins" handy to present to these gentlemen.

Once he stated this, I had to go and check with posters on either Glocktalk or here. I believe Steve from Pa. responded.

After the VT shootings, I know some legislation was proposed to limit anyone having been detained for "mental observation" from being able to purchase firearms and thought I read a thread here somewhere that posted of being denied a LTCF for a "302".

I'll try to find reference to this .

Pa Patriot. So if I am correct and these guys actually arrested someone, the arrest would be dropped and not be part of your record.
I would think you would have some legal recourse and assume you could get your LTCF back.

27

[The Drew]

I would say you'd have a hell of a case for a civil rights violation, and a settlement for at least the amount of your legal bills...

[RoyJackson]

Originally Posted by 27hand

No I don't know the name of the officer. I left just shaking my head over the response.

Pa Patriot. So if I am correct and these guys actually arrested someone, the arrest would be dropped and not be part of your record.
I would think you would have some legal recourse and assume you could get your LTCF back.

I suggest you be pro-active in this...contact the police chief or sheriff.
Even if they can't "legally" 302 you..well, they just made a mistake with open carry, didn't they? Don't assume it would be easy to get your license back...

[PeteG]

Originally Posted by 27hand

I was reading another thread asking where people have openly carried and how it went.

I have a question regarding the retention of your LTCF if you have been improperly arrested and "302'd" by an officer that doesn't know the law.

. . . . The young deputy? told me that if he saw me carrying openly on a Pittsburgh street, he would arrest and "302" me or anyone openly carrying. I never got to the point of city of the first class Etc, etc.

First, let me say I am not familiar with how these "quote" things work, so if I screw it up, sorry.

With respect to the substance of your inquiry:

There are some officers out there who remain confused about their role in society, including the limits on thier authority. There will always will be at least a few. So you have a choice: stand up for what is right, or design your life to the lowest common denominator.

There is no legal basis in Pennsylvania for arresting a person merely because he or she is carrying openly (other than in certain restricted areas and in Philadelphia County). To refer one for mental observation, on the premise that one who carries openly is per se mentally ill or incompetent such as to present a danger to himself or others (a "302"), goes beyond simply misunderstanding the law. It is a deliberate and malicious abuse of existing law and procedure for the purpose of punishing the exercise of legal right (recently acknowledged by a federal court of appeals to be a constitutionally protected right), and to indtimidate others who may wish to exercise the same right. The deputy would be wrong for arresting you, wrong for attempting to refer you for mental observation, and was already wrong for threatening those on the list with punitive action if they exercise a right this "young deputy" does not feel they should have.

My name is Peter Georgiades. My office is a 2313 East Carson Street, on the South Side of Pittsburgh. I am quite easy to find. I am also often seen carrying a sidearm openly in this neighborhood (as well as at local ranges and various business establishments between there and those ranges). I have been doing so for 10 years or so, without any incident or untoward consequences.

If you would advise the "young deputy" of my identity, activities and location, he will be free to come and arrest me and refer me for mental observation . . . after which I will be pleased to afford him, his superiors and his deparment a protracted lesson in constitutional law and federal civil procedure. In the meantime, tell him I think he is both bully and a fool, and he should shut the hell up.

[Pa. Patriot]

Mr. Georgiades,
Welcome to the board.

[PeteG]

Thanks.

Now, if I could just figure out how to FIND stuff here . . .

[soberbyker]

Originally Posted by PeteG

Thanks.

Now, if I could just figure out how to FIND stuff here . . .

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