Open Carry in Luzerne co. Particulary Mtn. Top and Wilkes-Barre

[Lougotzz]

Pa patriot

I come from NY as well. I moved here 4 years ago. I have to agree with you that NYC ruined NY State.

I commend what you are doing. I am not the biggest fan of OC because I am the type of person to fly stealth. maybe because of the brainwashing done to me in NY. I like to keeps guns a low key topic and I dont advertise it.

But just so you know I am not 100% against it either. I think it has its place. I am not far from Philadelphis so it is much more congested here in chester county. I have never seen OC in the 4 years that I am here. I have seen CC by someone printing. I have seen that a few times.


As for me to OC. I have thought of it but I dont have the right holster. I do agree that you have faster access to your weapon. It is more comfortable ect.

AS for LEO. I think it is the law. They need to obey the law as well as we do. So if they dont like it tough. I dont like many gun laws as well as many other laws but I obey them. They should do the same.

[Pa. Patriot]

Thanks for the comments, Lougotzz.
Your post illustrates exactly how things should be. You've chosen your preferred mode of carry and I have chosen mine. I carry both cc and OC depending on the need. I prefer OC.
You like Sig, I like Glock (hypothetical)
You like Kramer leather, I like Sparks...(hypothetical)
etc, etc.

Mutual respect.

What irks me (in case you couldn't tell ) is when the folks that prefer CC think it is their responsibility to force their opinions on others. I understand all the arguments for CC and against OC. BUT I also understand the inverse. We have lots of threads on this and other boards, since the beginning of time, to refer to and come to our own conclusions. I just can't believe how much infighting I see incident to the CC'ers attacking the OC'ers. I say CC'ers attacking OC'ers because I've yet to see a CC thread or comment get hijacked by someone insisting they are wrong for CC'ing and that they need to OC. I've seen OC mentioned in reply to general or CC threads, but never opinion pushing. IOW: conversation. Unfortunately I see the opposite frequently.

In my time OC'ing I have learned that my biggest enemy is other gun owners whom disagree with OC. Not the ones like yourself, that see it as two modes of carry, appropriate for differing situations and different people, but the ones that have not thought out their positions very well. I'm not talking about anyone in this thread, I'm referring to some incredibly ignorant posts I've seen in other threads on this and other boards. Those folks seem intent on ostracizing anyone that OC's based on weak arguments that they refuse to even acknowledge anything that counters those arguments. Many of these same people that purport to be such strong supporters of gun rights. I cant figure out, even if one chooses not to OC oneself, how one could possibly bash folks that do. OC is one of the ultimate gun freedoms. IMO, if you don't support OC then you do not support the "right to bear arms". These folks remind me of gun control proponents that themselves own guns, like Sylvester Stalone. He owns guns but supports a lot of gun control. I guess because after all, they only want "reasonable" restrictions, right? Reasonable restrictions that have repeatedly been proven to not reduce crime...
Anyway, I fully understand that OC may not be appropriate for ALL situations, but that is up to the INDIVIDUAL to decide for themselves.

Example 1: A lot of people don't want to "scare the sheeple". All well and good, I have no problem with that. I even take that position myself in rare instances. However, I personally feel that it's not my fault that the public has an errant view of firearms so I really don't care what irrational fears people have.
I DO know that by hiding our guns (and our rights) in the safes and closets and under our shirts we are only perpetuating this issue of ignorance towards guns. I've decided I have no reason to hide my guns as if I am doing something wrong.

Example 2: I have decided, for myself, that I will NOT wear anything other than boots (at at a minimum sensible shoes) out in public. I have made this decision based on many things. To name a few: Tactics, preparedness, SAFETY and personal comfort. Some of these reasons are important (safety, prep) some are less so (personal comfort).
When I see a man out in public wearing "flip flops" I do NOT tell that person that they should wear boots for reason x,y,z. If the topic came up, suppose it was my neighbor I bumped into and we started talking and the topic of footwear came up, I may mention I prefer to wear boots because of x,y,z.

So? What's my point? It's up to the individual. Calling someone names, telling them they should do things your way is childish and disrespectful. When someone tells me I should conceal my gun I immediately write them off as being a know-it-all.
What's appropriate for the situation is highly dependent on the individual.

I believe that I should be able to carry (bear) arms at will, where, when, and however I please. Home, public, airplanes, DC, wherever. To me the right to bear arms is absolute. I don't see the word "except" anywhere in the 2nd amendment. Unfortunately it seems as if a lot of gun "owners" don't share this view.

[Steve in PA]

LOL......I roll my eyes at guys wearing flip flops or sandals too!!

The beach is the only place for those things!

[Penguini66]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

LOL......I roll my eyes at guys wearing flip flops or sandals too!!

The beach is the only place for those things!

Couldn't agree more. Flip flops and sandals on men should be illegal.

[mikey]

Originally Posted by Penguini66

Couldn't agree more. Flip flops and sandals on men should be illegal.

....And on some women also!!!

[SSGF109]

Originally Posted by tes151

Who cares what law enforcement finds acceptable. They will do as the law tells them or pay the consequences. They don't have a choice.

I agree to a point, BUT A LEO doesn't know you, you could be some crazy person who just decided to strap on a gun and wait for someone to p*ss you off. Until you have been an LEO its hard to understand.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by SSGF109

I agree to a point, BUT A LEO doesn't know you, you could be some crazy person who just decided to strap on a gun and wait for someone to p*ss you off. Until you have been an LEO its hard to understand.

I agree with and understand the sentiment. However, the LEO in PA have to comply with a set of laws the same we do. In PA an LEO can not legally detain you for merely open carrying (without any other criminal or suspicious act that would be probable cause in and of itself).
This has been upheld by the PA Supreme Court.
Commonwealth v. Hawkins

Open carry is lawful in Pennsylvania, and it is a right that is protected by state law, and by Article 1, Section 21 of the state constitution. Unless there is actual illegal conduct being committed, mistreatment by law enforcement officers of those who are lawfully open carrying may be subject to second degree misdemeanor charges. If you have a personal opinion against open carry by private civilians, there is no reason to share that opinion or belief with such a person that you are making contact with, as it is unprofessional. If a person is open carrying on foot, and unless such person is known to you for certain to not be allowed to possess firearms per §6105 or §6110.1, or is violating §912/§913, there is no reason for anything other than voluntary contact with said person, and even then must exercise their judgment to make said contact.

Fear, is no excuse for acting unlawfully.
I'm not afraid of seeing someone OC'ing If an LEO is he should seek other employment - ASAP

Edited to add:
I thought of another analogy. LEO stopping a citizen whom has done nothing illegal ONLY to check out his OC'd gun "because he could be crazy" is like saying that it is OK for an LEO to stop anyone OC'ing an I-pod because it could have illegally downloaded music on it, right?
I don't think anyone would go for that! And I-pods aren't constitutionally as well as statutorily protected like firearms

[Lougotzz]

PA Patriot

I am very happy you are doing this. Even though I dont OC I would not want to see it outlawed. Now I know VA is very comfortable with open carry. If I lived there I would probably be more prone to do it. I do sometimes think of it. Especially in summer when it is so hot like today. It is so hot that I dont want to carry at all. The comfort of OC would probably make it easyier to carry on these days.Just for the record I have not been CC during this heat wave.

As for SSGF109 I disagree with him 100%. I fell if a LEO can't handle a call of a man with a gun and he see's OC he should turn in his badge. To me he is then a incompetant LEO. There are laws and they have to be followed. The door swings both ways. This is the whole trouble with this country. people of power can pick and choose what laws they want to follow but the regular joe blow cant.


IF YOU ARE A LEO AND YOU CAN'T HANDLE A STOP THAT A CITIZEN HAS A GUN (CC OR OC) GET A DIFFERENT JOB. We are a nation that private gun ownership is in our foundation. Get use to it and learn the professional way to handle it.

This is not directed to SSGF109 personally it is directed towards his post.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by SSGF109

O.I.F Veteran 04-05 Tour / U.S. Army MP Retired.

Oh yeah, PS: Thanks for your service!

[Pa. Patriot]

7/9/07

Wife said it was too hot to cook and made me go get take-out.

Pennstar Bank, Mountain Top at the Turkey Hill rt309.
Outside/lobby MAC machine Busy place, waited in line...

Tin-Tin's, rt309 Wilkes-Barre.
Best chi-com take-out south of WB city.

Desert camo cargo shorts & blue t-shirt. G23 in serpa w/all the trimmins (spare mag/6P) .. yada.. yada... what does it matter? No one pays me no attention anyway