Open Carry in Luzerne co. Particulary Mtn. Top and Wilkes-Barre

[carterbeauford]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Well, yes. A lot of things "could" happen... A lot of bad things "could", and do happen CC'ing as well. People have been murdered because they did not have time or ability to access their ccw. People that may not have been in the situation in the first place had the assailant known they were armed. Not an unlikely scenario.

My point?

Life is about playing the odds. There's pro's and con's to both OC and CC. I favor the odds of OC, you do not. I am fully aware of the pitfalls associated with weapons retention and have had my share of professional training in retention.

As to the warning about an LEO that might "think" that my legal behavior is "bold" or "brazen". That's nothing more than a perfect example of what is wrong with some LEO's today. Certainly not what's wrong with someone OC'ing.

Making a point:
I think only a fool would try and disarm me to make a point. Might end up a dead fool.
In my post deterred means deterred.

Making my point:
I OC for a lot of reasons. Making a point is just one of them.
Another reason is because I have grown tired of LEO thinking they can bully people into not OC'ing legally . I didn't even realize this went on. When I moved to pa some 14 yrs ago it was as if it was common knowledge that OC was NOT legal, thanks in no small part to the lies and misinformation propagated by LEO's. When I found out otherwise I was a little perturbed. So if it seems like I have little respect for your opinion please understand that it's not personal, only a programmed response to 14 years of BS from LEO in regards to many areas of PA firearms laws. I've also grown tired of hearing of LEO's whom know that OC is legal but are harassing people that are legally OC'ing for apparently no more reason than that they disagree and are trying to "discourage" the act through the power of their badge. That crap is just plain wrong no matter how you slice it.

To be honest, and no disrespect intended, but from the condescending tone of your reply (you imply you know better than me because you are LEO) I read into it a hint of desire to suppress OC because of your personal opinion. That's a little concerning to me. I just hope you do/did not practice that attitude from behind the badge like the LEO's I mentioned above. Again, just the way I read it, especially with the part about how LEO might perceive my OC'ing. I read that in particular as a clear intimidation tactic. Again, I'm not attacking you, just feeling a bit defensive to your tone.

I write this reply more for the people happening to read it than for you as I believe your mind is clearly made up. That's fine, your opinion is yours, I simply do not share it. I have not had a career in law enforcement but have had my share of training as well as life experience.
Your opinion is that my OC'ing is careless. Mine is that your doom and gloom prediction is less than unlikely.

BUT, I'll agree to disagree if you do.
Fair enough?

I don't think you owe anyone an explanation, your mind is made up to open carry, and you have been doing a fine job doing so and documenting it both here and at opencarry.org

Standing up to uneducated law enforcement and telling them how it is, in my opinion, is a great way to advance our cause. If you want something done, do it yourself, eventually people will follow, this is exactly what's happening here.

[SSGF109]

PA Patriot I agree to disagree, and I do respect your opinions, thats why we live in America. I do agree with you there are alot of idiots who call themselves LEO's BUT there are MANY more good ones. All it takes is one idiot to make things very costly for you and put you in a legal jam of some sorts. All anyone can ask is that you thread wisely and stay safe. No hard feelings and I hopre you don't take offensive to my opinions either.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by SSGF109

PA Patriot I agree to disagree, and I do respect your opinions, thats why we live in America. I do agree with you there are alot of idiots who call themselves LEO's BUT there are MANY more good ones. All it takes is one idiot to make things very costly for you and put you in a legal jam of some sorts. All anyone can ask is that you thread wisely and stay safe. No hard feelings and I hopre you don't take offensive to my opinions either.

Thank you for the clarification. And I'll admit I apparently read into your post a bit much as I have no doubt now your genuine in your concerns pointed out and that you are not a bad LEO.
I am all too aware of the ability of bad LEO's to make life difficult which is partly why I do what I do. I don't want to end up with bogus charges and bankrupt over defending a bogus arrest.
Just trying to do my part to make the world a little better a place too
Thanks again.

[Falcon118]

Originally Posted by SSGF109

One final note. As you may tell I'm not a big fan of open carry only because not "everyone"does it and its not exceptable by law enforcement, aside that fact I would love nothing more than open carry like it was in the 19th century, and the dirtbags of society would think twice ,but its not hte 19th century.

IMO i'm not really interested in what is "acceptable" to law enforcement, if what I am doing is not "Illegal". "LAW ENFORCEMENT" means to ENFORCE the "LAWS". My open carrying not being acceptable to police is not my concern, but theirs. (Please take this as respectfully stated as I mean nothing more than my words say by it)

[tes151]

Originally Posted by SSGF109

In my experiences in 22 years law enforcement, what your doing is attracting unnecessary attention to yourself. Believe me people are not as dumb or unobservant as you may think or they let on. Sooner or later you may run into someone who may just take that pistol from you just to prove a point. Deterred may mean disarmed of your weapon, and an inocent bystander could be hurt or killed. Some police officers may see you as a threat or brazen and just a bit to bold. Having the right to open carry is one think, diplaying it in general public to show everyone you have the right to do so may just bring you more trouble, pain, financial and liabilility problems then your ready for.
I'm not trying to attack you or your rights by my statement, I just want you to see things from a different point of view.... Is proving your point worth the problems it could cause???IMHO

One final note. As you may tell I'm not a big fan of open carry only because not "everyone"does it and its not exceptable by law enforcement, aside that fact I would love nothing more than open carry like it was in the 19th century, and the dirtbags of society would think twice ,but its not hte 19th century.

Who cares what law enforcement finds acceptable. They will do as the law tells them or pay the consequences. They don't have a choice.

[Pa. Patriot]

Sat. 7/7/07

Ruby Tuesday's, Wilkes-Barre:
Went for my belated b-day dinner w/wifey and kids.
Place was busy. Couple across from us was definitely unable to stop looking for a while though They didn't act like they had issue, just curious I suspect. No other looks noticed.

All three hostesses as well as numerous wait staff knew I was armed (open carrying)
They showed no concern and asked us to "come back soon" upon leaving.

Sam's Club, Wilkes-Barre:
Kid running our check out looked about 10 times while we were waiting in line. He was very polite when it was our turn...

KMart, Wilkes-Barre:
Nada, just a bunch of folks looking for bargains...

Mountain Freeze, Mountain Top:
Sat at picnic tables to eat our ice cream. We sat at the table next to a couple that was definitely "discussing" us while we we were in line. Gentleman looked over a couple times, I smiled and nodded once. He returned the gesture.

Pretty uneventful, as usual.

Attire: 5.11 tactical shorts, blue ss vertical stripped button-up shirt. Hikers. Glock23 in serpa, spare mag & 6P.

[Skuggi]

lol, getting to be just an everyday thing anymore huh? lol.


I just throw it on anymore, not even thinking of "Who will question me on this?" like i used to how bout you?

[Holleta]

Forgot one very important aspect....boxers or briefs?

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Sat. 7/7/07

Ruby Tuesday's, Wilkes-Barre:
Went for my belated b-day dinner w/wifey and kids.
Place was busy. Couple across from us was definitely unable to stop looking for a while though They didn't act like they had issue, just curious I suspect. No other looks noticed.

Sam's Club, Wilkes-Barre:
Kid running our check out looked about 10 times while we were waiting in line. He was very polite when it was our turn...

KMart, Wilkes-Barre:
Nada, just a bunch of folks looking for bargains...

Mountain Freeze, Mountain Top:
Sat at picnic tables to eat our ice cream. We sat at the table next to a couple that was definitely "discussing" us while we we were in line. Gentleman looked over a couple times, I smiled and nodded once. He returned the gesture.

Pretty uneventful, as it should be.

Attire: 5.11 tactical shorts, blue ss vertical stripped button-up shirt. Hikers. Glock23 in serpa, spare mag & 6P.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Holleta

Forgot one very important aspect....boxers or briefs?

Commando of course!

[Falcon118]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Commando of course!

LOL!! Go getem Patriot!!