soccer game and...completely harassed at Walmart tonight....

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by TDZ

Hi Greg! Just thought I would let you know I took the initiative to register here. I'm with all of you guys 100%.. -Tim

Great to see you! WELCOME!

[Aran]

Originally Posted by headcase

What he said. It would appear the guy was actually reacting to a customer complaint, not the normal "Oh I got complaints" BS.

Unfortunately in this scenario, it seems that the complaint came from someone with intent to do her harm/at the very least "up to no good."

Ummm hi Aran.

Interesting choice of threads.

What? It'd be a waste of time to reply to something I have no opinion on, no?

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by Brown-Bear

Sometimes the members of this forum seem to forget that property owner's rights supercede the rights of gun owners

I don't agree with the term "supercede". There is no right that is any more or less important than another, but there are times when they simply can't coexist. It has nothing to do with the validity or weight of either.

Of course, that's just my take on it.

[normanvin]

Originally Posted by jahwarrior72

i just got off the phone with Tom, the manager today, and got the same impression. he insisted that he was unclear on the law, and he called the police only to find out what was legal, not to have her arrested or escorted off the property. he also contacted corporate HQ, and confirmed what all of us know already. he seemed pretty amicable, though he was upset that she took what he said out of context. he also said he never told her she couldn't shop there, he just was concerned because customers were complaining. i talked to him for about 15 minutes; my impressions were that he wasn't harrassing her, he was just being a store manager.

Unfortunately call the police for advice on this matter is fruitless. How many times have we found that we know more about these laws than the leo.

Originally Posted by TDZ

Two things: First, Bob Durgin raised hell Tuesday afternoon about the comment Eby made about not using common sense. Durgin actually fully supported you and said it was none of the other mothers' business. I was suprised as Bob had been awful liberal lately prior to his bypass surgery. Second, I guarantee my next visit to Wal Mart will be with my .38 open carried. I carried at Boscov's, Wal mart Harrisburg and all over town the day I found out about your revocation. In fact, I went to the arts festival uptown and got harrassed by some fire police. I am the guy that wrote the letter calling for all to open carry. I was pleased to get calls from Greg R. and Jim L. You go, girl!!!
-Tim Zimmerman

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the support.

Originally Posted by Aran

I'm clearly not SFN, but the way I read it is she ran into a neighbor who she doesn't get along with while she was in WalMart, who called the manager and the manager told her to disarm, she did so, then went back in to talk to him, cleared things up, and things are okay now and she can carry there.

Or something.

Hey Aran welcome back.

Originally Posted by danp

One suggestion I'd make moving forward is to be more polite than you've ever been in your life.

You have ruffled some feathers now and if people are going to want to mess with you, don't give them any reason to be right.

There is a pluss side to being polite to some of these people. It kills them because they can't get a rise out of you.

[shefearsnothing]

I guess I was not clear. I was not asking anyone to call the manager and tell him off. Yes, what I believe Jim said. Nothing wrong with telling the customer "she is not breaking the law". We all know it's not walmart's corporate policey. Also, to correct whoever said he told me I could conceal and keep on shopping, NO, when he first approached me he told me to TAKE IT TO MY CAR. It was only when I secured it in my vehicle and went back to speak with him and he had been on the phone with multiple parties that we discussed concealment. Additionally, I do not deny nor have I forgotten that private property owners or those speaking on their behalf have the right to ask me to leave or not carry on their property. This was not exactly the case. I realize he is the one who came to me but it was not of his on accord. The people who saw me did not see my gun and complain. They saw ME, LOOKED FOR THE GUN and THEN complained. AND WHY!? BECAUSE I WON and they can't STAND it. What I thought would be nice was the message of "there is nothing wrong with saying to those customers 'she is not breaking the law and thank you for shopping at Walmart.'" I am sorry if anyone thought I was implying anything else.

Yes, I do understand the value of being polite to these people and thank you dan for pointing that out. Just yesterday I saw my lovely neighbor Tonya and her son outside and I called out a greeting to both of them. Cody was just so happy to see me. I am pretty sure his mother was not and in fact may have been annoyed to see her son so happy to see me.

Someone said "I told you that you and your family would be subjected to this...." Ok and this makes it right? People are treated poorly for being gay, does that make it right? People are treated poorly for being in a bi-racial relationship, does that make it right? People are treated poorly because of their religion, does that make it right? Because we "expect" that these things are going to happen should we just roll over and allow them to happen to us and say "oh well...we knew it was going to happen." If we suspected there was going to be a terrorist attack on our country do you think we should just say "oh well...we knew it was coming eventually so...."

[Aran]

Originally Posted by shefearsnothing

Someone said "I told you that you and your family would be subjected to this...." Ok and this makes it right? People are treated poorly for being gay, does that make it right? People are treated poorly for being in a bi-racial relationship, does that make it right? People are treated poorly because of their religion, does that make it right? Because we "expect" that these things are going to happen should we just roll over and allow them to happen to us and say "oh well...we knew it was going to happen." If we suspected there was going to be a terrorist attack on our country do you think we should just say "oh well...we knew it was coming eventually so...."

No, Mel, it doesn't. For any of your examples.

You still need to steel yourself to the harsh reality that things aren't going to go so well for you for awhile. And I'm speaking from experience here. I still occasionally glance over my shoulder when I'm at WalMart and see their loss prevention guy is tailing me - but if he wants to follow the same meandering path I take as I wander through the store, more power to him, it's his right to waste his time.

It's when they stop wasting their time and start wasting your time that it becomes an issue.

I don't want to suggest confronting this woman, since it sounds like she's already a little bit loopy, especially concerning you, and I'm not entirely convinced you'd be able to keep her off the defensive/offensive (No offense, you're now a "hot button" issue to her) but I think someone needs to just have a quiet chat with her, explain things, and see if she can be helped to move on with her life.

Failing that, ignore her 100% and move on yourself.


Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

[sinful]

The manager was just being a manager and trying to satisfy the complaining customers. 2-3 happy customers is more valuable to a store manager than 1 irritated one, I'm sure. (also keep in mind he knows nothing of the history between your neighbor and you.)

He didn't tread on your rights and was more than willing to look into the incident to make sure he was within his rights without stepping on yours. I really think that in itself is a huge props to the manager. A lot of the person's of authority would just say - "because I said so" - and leave it at that. At least he put some effort into getting correct info. Not to mention he took the time to listen to your side of it once you complied with his request to disarm while in the store that day.

Originally Posted by shefearsnothing

The people who saw me did not see my gun and complain. They saw ME, LOOKED FOR THE GUN and THEN complained. AND WHY!? BECAUSE I WON and they can't STAND it.

From what I gathered, you pretty much know it was your neighbor and friend that complained. It really sounds to me that they're giving a little pay back for what your son did with their flags. Sure a firearm incident trumps a flag theft, but neighbors get petty of silly things all the time. Hell, my neighbor gets mad when I pull my Jeep up the right-of-way between our houses because he feels it's part of his yard, even though I've had the zoning people come and mark the right-of-way... anyhow, I got side tracked.. what was I saying again? ... oh yeah, it sounds to me like they know you're in a sensitive spot when it comes to firearms right now, and the spotlight is on you for now. So they're using the ltcf situation as leverage for some old fashioned vengeance.

It's that or she's just a bitch and wants to start shit for you... *shrug*

[GlockedAndLoaded]

Well what did you expect? You were playing soccer IN a Walmart...



That's what the thread title meant right? ...right?



But yes, as mentioned before, the only thing these people want is validation by getting a rise out of you. They want to be seen and and want to feel morally superior to you and they try to do that by trying to get a rise out of you. Responding in a negative or angry manner (even if their ignorance does make you angry) just proves to them they are more in control of there emotions and makes them feel "better than".


As to the Manager I give him lots of credit for doing his job, investigating, and being very polite about this it seems. I'm not sure it warrants a phone chain to his office or an OC rush, because it's his job to respond to every customer; even the crazy ones. Like the venerable PA Patriot said, it's their property, their rules. Sure we don't like it but we can't change it until we change the public's viewpoint from legal and free locations.


Being uneducated about firearms just means every firearm is seen as a snake; people are afraid of it even if the snake has no motivation to leave it's sunny rock. *so warmmmmmmm * And seeing someone constantly escorted out of a store just influences the viewers of the event, albeit unconciously, that carrying a weapon is against the rules and must be wrong.


To truely educate one must be calm and collected and let the questioners approch you so they feel in control and can learn at their speed, not yours. Never in my life has someone changed my mind by arguing with me, but I have had my mind changed by listening to someones calm/logical explanations, and then researching them myself.

[Tootie]

Originally Posted by GlockedAndLoaded

But yes, as mentioned before, the only thing these people want is validation by getting a rise out of you. They want to be seen and and want to feel morally superior to you and they try to do that by trying to get a rise out of you. Responding in a negative or angry manner (even if their ignorance does make you angry) just proves to them they are more in control of there emotions and makes them feel "better than".

This is a big thing SFN. As you already know this neighbor has a beef with you and she will do anything to make her point. Don't allow these people to get under your skin and possibly do something that would reinforce their impressions. You handled yourself just fine in WM, you didn't confront you discussed. That is always the best way to resolve an issue. Stay calm and let the complainers stamp their feet, let them show that they are the ones that are causing the problems and not you.


OH, btw, congrats on getting your ltcf back.

[jahwarrior72]

Originally Posted by shefearsnothing

I guess I was not clear. I was not asking anyone to call the manager and tell him off.

well, you did list his name and number. i personally didn't call to tell him off, i called to get his side of the story.

Originally Posted by shefearsnothing

Someone said "I told you that you and your family would be subjected to this...." Ok and this makes it right? People are treated poorly for being gay, does that make it right? People are treated poorly for being in a bi-racial relationship, does that make it right? People are treated poorly because of their religion, does that make it right? Because we "expect" that these things are going to happen should we just roll over and allow them to happen to us and say "oh well...we knew it was going to happen."

i understand these points, and have experienced at least one of them numerous times. all i can say is, i can't kick the world in the balls. i am going to be mistreated for one reason or another, and i've come to accept it as fact, and you can't change what is; at least, not overnight. hell, not even in a lifetime.

here are the facts:
1. you chose to OC at a kid's soccer game. whether it was good judgement or not is irrelevent; you did it, as was your right, and i support you.
2. you had your license pulled because someone else didn't like it.
3. you decided not to roll over for anyone, and fight an illegal action. i support you in this also.
4. you made national headlines, got your license back, and now people all over North America know who you are, and not all of them like you, or us, or what we stand for.
5. you will face persecution, from your peers and neighbors, and from anyone else you may run into across the path of your lifetime. it may not even be related to your gun; it could be because you have tattoos, are very pale, or any myriad of reasons.

everyone is treated unfairly for something. no one says you have to roll over, but you need to be realistic in your expectations of people's behavior, and adjust your own accordingly. myself? when faced with these situations, i put my head down, dig in my heels, and plow through. others may compromise, still some may just say "FUCK YOU" and put up a fight. all of these are the right thing to do. you have to decide what's right for you.