LEO encounter at Home Depot in Allentown

[General Geoff]

I've open carried many times in that home depot, I'm even friends with a few of the employees there. Never had a problem.

Glad you didn't spend the evening in a cell, but the first officer's initial attitude sounds very unreasonable to me. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[lildobe]

I have to agree with the majority here - this was not a "good" encounter - multiple rights were violated and most likely some departmental procedures.

Definitely follow up with a complaint against the officer in whatever way Allentown handles complaints. The search of your wallet was WAY beyond anything that is allowed, even in a Terry stop.

The removal of your weapon was also not acceptable, as it placed all the people around you at risk of an N.D. Be sure to point this out when you make the complaint. The less a weapon is handled, the less chance of an N.D.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[normanvin]

Lets face it. If a person who was not a leo had done this, there would becharges involved. And this is the type of person we carry a gun to defend our selves from...

[HiredGoon]

From the Allentown PD homepage (which has staff photos and contact info):

The mission of the Allentown Police Department is to preserve the public peace and order, to protect life and property and to enforce the laws of the United States, Pennsylvania and the City of Allentown.

To achieve this mission, we commit to these specific values:

* We value our staff and trust their ability to resolve problems and set an example for the public to follow.

* We recognize the importance of partnering with the community through crime prevention and educational programs that aid in accomplishing the police mission.

* We strive for excellence and are committed to continuous improvement.

* We are committed to the protection of individual basic human rights.

* We encourage diversity among our department members and the community we serve.

* We reorganize the department based on team work and collaboration as a means to achieve our success.

* We maintain integrity, fairness, and open communication.

* We insist on courteous and respectful interaction with all people.

* We are concerned with the safety of all of our citizens, especially children.

How many of these "values" did officer #1 not commit to???

[emsjeep]

He called for backup...I would say that counts as team work....

[Pro2A]

Originally Posted by truecrimson

I consider it a good encounter. Everyone was professional, pleasant and courteous. I didn't have to wear bracelets, ride in a police car, or be a guest of the city. 3 Allentown Police Officers and some HD employees got educated regarding the legality of OC. Home Depot will will be hearing from me as soon as I can lookup the other HD threads and get the contact info. Hopefully corporate will educate their employees regarding their policy. I will be getting a copy of the police report (I hope I don't need the number for that), and plan to try to make an appointment to speak with the chief to discuss educating his officers about open carry.

When I called Monica to tell her she was not amused

But they still clearly violated your rights. There is no RAS or Probable cause to stop you on foot for picking out tools. Just because you gave in doesn't mean what they did was right or legal.

[The Unknown 1087]

Originally Posted by HiredGoon

I'm thinking he was probably on his way home from or going to work is why he why he was in uniform.

Indeed he may be going home. However, a good bit of Police Departments tell their officers they may not leave their building off duty with their uniform on, granted some smaller departments don't enforce this, but I would think a place like Allentown they'd enforce this. Just odd though.

Sucks that it turned out like that! Hopefully it wont happen again and a complaint gets filed.

[Ret-Fed]

Originally Posted by truecrimson

... I didn't get the vibe that were fishing for something, or intentionally harrassing a lowly citizen. They were nice guys. ...

Crimson,
In my opinion, the only reason they were being nice, and chit-chatty with you, is that someone on the telephone told them that they screwed-up and you were probably going to sue them. They did so many things wrong I don't know where to start.

[imperialism2024]

To the OP: You handled yourself well during the encounter, and you seem to have struck a balance between standing up for your rights, and acting amicably to the LEOs.

However, the next step is an official complaint, and/or a lawsuit. You don't have to be thrown on the ground and beaten to a pulp to have your rights infringed upon. It was wrong to demand ID, wrong to demand a LTCF, wrong to disarm you, wrong to detain you, and wrong that this was all done by an off-duty LEO.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[PennsyPlinker]

I spoke to Mr. Lutz, the store manager, just a little while ago while I was out doing some business. It was a phone conversation. It was like pulling teeth to get a concise, straight answer out of him, but it did come with some prodding. He spoke to the corporate entity in Atlanta, and "the store policy is the corporate policy".

"What does that mean?"

"It means that we are in compliance with our corporate policy."

"And that is...?"

"It means that we observe any laws in force in Pennsylvania."

"So you are telling me I can bring my gun into the store in plain view?"

"We will observe Pennsylvania law."

"Pennsylvania law says that I am allowed to bring my gun into the store, but if you tell me to leave, I have to leave."

"Yes, just as I can tell anyone else to leave and they have to leave."

"So if I show up with my gun in plain view, are you going to tell me to leave?"

"No."

So there it is. I will be needing some stuff in the next few days, so I will be interested to see how it all works out. He didn't sound real happy, like maybe it was store policy, and he would follow it without liking it very much. I don't know. He did invite me to ask for him next time I was in the store if I wanted to speak with him some more about the issue.