LEO encounter at Home Depot in Allentown

[JayBell]

Originally Posted by 87th PVI

Get a female judge & you're screwed without a backup analogy!

the backup analogy is this:

Ask her honor about the fact that she leaves the house every day fully equipped to be a prostitute, however, shes not to be arrested or detained for being equipped to be that, correct?


this comment goes back to the urban legend gun quote, about a reporter asking an Army officer, that happened to also be a scout leader, aout his plans for the pack that weekend:

Reporter: "So, what activities do you have planned?"

Scout leader : "oh, some woodcraft, land navigation skills, and some target shooting"

Reporter: "TARGET SHOOTING?!?!? but you are equipping them to be KILLERS, aren't you?!?!!?"

Scout Leader: "Well, you are equipped to be a prostitute, but you aren't one, are you?"

[imperialism2024]

Originally Posted by tadpole256

So I guess my question would be this... Why open carry? Why not conceal? It seems to me, that if you carry a fire arm for self defense, concealment is smarter, because if I were to rob a store, the first thing I would do is shoot the person who is openly carrying a weapon...

If your not carrying for self defense, then why open carry?

For clarification, I am NOT AGAINST open carry, I am just not sure what the reasoning is...

Oh no you di'nt!

*gasps*

[87th PVI]

Originally Posted by JayBell

the backup analogy is this:

Ask her honor about the fact that she leaves the house every day fully equipped to be a prostitute, however, shes not to be arrested or detained for being equipped to be that, correct?


this comment goes back to the urban legend gun quote, about a reporter asking an Army officer, that happened to also be a scout leader, aout his plans for the pack that weekend:

Reporter: "So, what activities do you have planned?"

Scout leader : "oh, some woodcraft, land navigation skills, and some target shooting"

Reporter: "TARGET SHOOTING?!?!? but you are equipping them to be KILLERS, aren't you?!?!!?"

Scout Leader: "Well, you are equipped to be a prostitute, but you aren't one, are you?"

LOL Nice one!

[normanvin]

Originally Posted by tadpole256

No need for the frustration... I am just curious what people's motivation is. I used to open carry, but I was working as a bail bondsman at the time, I just don't know if I would want to attract the attention to myself. It seems to me you'd be putting yourself at greater risk from cops and criminal alike...

You can use the search engine to research this, as it has been discussed many times.

[ChrisF4i]

Originally Posted by tadpole256

So I guess my question would be this... Why open carry? Why not conceal? It seems to me, that if you carry a fire arm for self defense, concealment is smarter, because if I were to rob a store, the first thing I would do is shoot the person who is openly carrying a weapon...

If your not carrying for self defense, then why open carry?

For clarification, I am NOT AGAINST open carry, I am just not sure what the reasoning is...

WTF.......

[PennsyPlinker]

Originally Posted by tadpole256

concealment is smarter, because if I were to rob a store, the first thing I would do is shoot the person who is openly carrying a weapon...

This has been addressed so many times on this forum I have lost count. I am sort of surprised that there are not a lot of other posts jumping on this statement, but maybe we are all just worn out from trying. But try I will...

First of all, I have seen the pictures you posted of yourself in the lounge. They are very impressive, and you are to be commended for your service. I have a very high respect for that service. That doesn't mean I will always agree with you though. Now, seeing those pictures proves that you have military experience, and since you survived that military experience, a reasonable military education.

It is the attacker who has the initiative. Therefore, the attacker will have the element of surprise, barring intelligence to his whereabouts, intentions, etc. But regardless of that, he has the initiative. By definition, we are defenders, not attackers. Therefore we do not have the initiative. By that I mean, it is up to the bad guy to start trouble. We cannot preempt trouble by reading his mind, intentions, whatever. We can, however, be prepared to meet that attack with our best defense.

Again drawing on military theory, an attacker will not commit to attack an objective where the odds are not substantially in his favor. If I recall correctly, odds of 3-1 are minimal, and 5-1 or better are considered ideal. That doesn't really enter into it here from a quantitative point of view, but I think it serves to illustrate that attackers do not want to attack hardened or difficult targets without overwhelming force.

Now we transition to civilian life. Bad guys are without fail, cowards. They are looking for the easy mark, the one who can be knocked off without risk or a substantial investment in resources. They are also afraid of being caught in the act by a superior force, usually the police. Add in that the vast majority of them do not have all that much on the ball. They may have a certain degree of intelligence, street smarts, or general cleverness, but overall they just aren't that smart. This is proven by the path they take in life. They may win for a while, but they are always going to be either caught by the police or get into it with someone bigger and badder than they are.

So now we have someone who is not all that smart, but is also nervous and edgy, and most of all scared of being hurt himself. All he or she wants is to make an easy score and disappear into the woodwork. Going up against someone who is openly carrying is not in their thought process. The odds are against them, just from the point of the target being armed. Openly displaying that weapon means that the target probably has some sort of training to go with it. And all this assumes that the bad guy is even going to see the weapon in the first place! In many cases people just don't see the gun. But even if he does, and even though he is stupid, he is smart enough to not want to run the risk of being shot. Remember, he is not looking at it as he will also get to shoot you too. He doesn't care what happens to you at all. He is completely absorbed in what happens to him. Even if you die, he does not want to run the risk of being shot. Your dying is nothing to him, but his getting hurt or dying is everything. So he is not going to pick a fight with the armed person.

Going concealed gives you somewhat of an element of surprise, but to what end? It will not prevent you being attacked, and in some cases, it may increase your odds, since the attacker will not have the knowledge that you have the will and the ability to defend yourself. So one could conceivably argue that CC increases your odds of being shot over OC. The bad guy has no idea that you are a player, so in fact, you have given away the defensive advantage you have of scaring him off. CC instead of OC requires that you take the initiative to assess every single person you contact, with a view to ambush instead of deterrence. After all, we are talking about the element of surprise, and that is exactly what ambush is - taking the initiative and becoming the attacker. And that is opposed to the defensive role that many of us see ourselves in, whether we CC or OC.

This whole discussion precludes the possibility of the diabolical mastermind, but outside of Hollywood, the chances of running into one of them is about the same as being hit by lightning - or better yet, a meteor. Add in that OC allows me to carry a bigger gun more comfortably, and I think that answers the question sufficiently. At least, it does for me.

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by tadpole256

So I guess my question would be this... Why open carry? Why not conceal? It seems to me, that if you carry a fire arm for self defense, concealment is smarter, because if I were to rob a store, the first thing I would do is shoot the person who is openly carrying a weapon...

If your not carrying for self defense, then why open carry?

For clarification, I am NOT AGAINST open carry, I am just not sure what the reasoning is...

Not a good thing to post here.............

[JayBell]

guys, please stop the OC vs CC debate, as PA Patriot requested some posts back.

discuss this incident fine, but STOP the oc vs CC debate in this thread.

further OC vs CC debate posts will be removed.

[PennsyPlinker]

Originally Posted by JayBell

guys, please stop the OC vs CC debate, as PA Patriot requested some posts back.

discuss this incident fine, but STOP the oc vs CC debate in this thread.

further OC vs CC debate posts will be removed.

Sorry Jay, I missed that post. I will be good now. I can't have Santa pass me by at the last minute you know.

[mikey]

Originally Posted by PennsyPlinker

...I am sort of surprised that there are not a lot of other posts jumping on this statement....

That's because we respect the moderators wishes NOT to go off topic!!!




Moderator rep welcome!!! And needed!!