LEO encounter at Home Depot in Allentown

[ruggerio]

Originally Posted by PennsyPlinker

TC, I am glad to hear that you did not end up in a small room with bars, but I don't know that you could exactly call this a positive encounter. I am not trying to be critical of your demeanor, and none of us know exactly how we will act until we get into a similar situation, but there are several things I noted about your story that bothered me a little.

Cops have a way - actually a lot of people have the same way - of using interruption as an intimidation device. They start talking over you aggressively in order to get you to comply with their wishes, whether it be an LEO or your girlfriend. This is the point in the encounter where you need to regain the initiative. Just because he interrupts you and becomes a little aggressive, you are not obligated to obey, or even to respond in haste. Stay calm (as calm as possible!) and tell him you are not required to show ID while on foot. Then (this is the regaining initiative part) ask him what crime it is he suspects you of committing. Now he has to respond to your request!

Second, as GunLawyer001 has already pointed out, his rooting through your wallet is a big problem. Most cops I have encountered treat wallets like Superman treats Kryptonite. They absolutely refuse to touch them, but demand that any ID be removed and handed over. This keeps them from getting into trouble over the $100 that was in the wallet, but isn't now.

I would have put up a much larger fuss about being disarmed. As soon as that gun comes out of its holster, the safety level of everyone in the area has just gone down several notches, and these guys need to be reminded of that. Personally I don't think it has anything to do with safety. If he were truly concerned about his own safety and you using the gun on him at any time, you would have been looking down the barrel of his own gun with him screaming at you to get down on the floor. No, it has everything to do with a power play, intimidation, and assertion of authority. This is not to say that you don't have to comply with his order, but you can make sure that he knows you know the real deal. Put the onus on him to explain to you why exactly you need to remove your gun. He has evaluated you already before approaching you, so why now does the gun need to come out and be unloaded? If he really thought that, it would have been the very first thing he did.

Again, none of us knows exactly how we will act in a given situation until we are in it. Going home alive and free is always important and you accomplished that. I am typing my thoughts here in the event that someone else finds themselves in a similar situation, they may have some preparation with some options on how they can act. I am in that Home Depot on a regular basis. I have been in there OC on a number of occasions. I will be contacting the store manager today to tell him the people in Lowes have never bothered me either and that if he doesn't like guns on customers, I will take my considerable home renovation budget elsewhere. I will also follow that up with a letter.

the best way to handle it is to do do it as you feel fit. the o.p. did. he was comfortable in the situation and felt as if the cops could get educated. i would applaud such common sense and awareness and contend that a service was done on behalf of the 2cd amendment. cops are more likes us then the others .

[NY Refugee]

Originally Posted by BlownNitroPontiac

I've gotta tell ya....retail managers don't make a whole lot of money. I doubt that it would equate to the sort of money that would compensate me, as a retail manager, for confronting a man with a gun.

Nope. Me, I'd delegate!

I'll give ya that but many of them like being the czar of their own little world, or put another way " they have reached the zenith of their existence and are now coasting until death".

[87th PVI]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, just the OP, but I gotta say, while I fully support the 2A and I wish people would not get freaked out by OC this sort of thing (and having the element of surprise on a would be attacker) is why I CC all the time. I'm thankful that you guys who OC hand out flyers and try to educate the public, and change their perception, but I just want to buy my socket wrench & get home without incident.
As I said, I only read the OP so far... he said he was familiar with Home Depot's corporate policy but didn't say if it was pro or anti carry in their stores. I'm going to do some checking & read more of this thread to hopefully find out what their view is on the subject but, if their corporate policy is against customers right to carry while shopping there, I'll be taking my business elsewhere and hopefully if others do the same-to any businesses that are anti carry in their establishments-then maybe that will change some minds in this present economy.
I believe in their right to govern what happens on their private property, but I'd like them to at the same time consider if our business worth losing as result of their choice to supress the constitution on their property.

[87th PVI]

Originally Posted by Mocha Java

ps I see that there is another H.D. thread here but it involves a manager, not the police.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...-oc-today.html

Looks like HD is carry friendly as a corporation kudos to them but they need to communicate their policies better to their mgrs & employees

[87th PVI]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

Quote:
Having a gun is not enough to suspect a robbery, any more than having a dick is enough to suspect rape.

Hmm, how can I work that quote into my next brief or motion.

Originally Posted by Adam-12

Making it personal helps get the point across. Maybe phrase it something like, "Your honor never leaves his home without the necessary equipment to rape. We respectfully submit that this by itself does not furnish reasonable articulable suspicion to detain your honor or confiscate said equipment."






You can use that one free of charge.

Get a female judge & you're screwed without a backup analogy!

[tadpole256]

So I guess my question would be this... Why open carry? Why not conceal? It seems to me, that if you carry a fire arm for self defense, concealment is smarter, because if I were to rob a store, the first thing I would do is shoot the person who is openly carrying a weapon...

If your not carrying for self defense, then why open carry?

For clarification, I am NOT AGAINST open carry, I am just not sure what the reasoning is...

[HiredGoon]

Originally Posted by tadpole256

So I guess my question would be this... Why open carry? Why not conceal? It seems to me, that if you carry a fire arm for self defense, concealment is smarter, because if I were to rob a store, the first thing I would do is shoot the person who is openly carrying a weapon...

If your not carrying for self defense, then why open carry?

For clarification, I am NOT AGAINST open carry, I am just not sure what the reasoning is...

I'll just jump in quickly to say that some OCers feel that open carrying is a deterrent to criminals. Some OC because it is their right to do so and also for comfort. Some...all of the above

[jahwarrior72]

Originally Posted by tadpole256

So I guess my question would be this... Why open carry? Why not conceal? It seems to me, that if you carry a fire arm for self defense, concealment is smarter, because if I were to rob a store, the first thing I would do is shoot the person who is openly carrying a weapon...

If your not carrying for self defense, then why open carry?

For clarification, I am NOT AGAINST open carry, I am just not sure what the reasoning is...

[tadpole256]

Originally Posted by jahwarrior72

No need for the frustration... I am just curious what people's motivation is. I used to open carry, but I was working as a bail bondsman at the time, I just don't know if I would want to attract the attention to myself. It seems to me you'd be putting yourself at greater risk from cops and criminal alike...

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by tadpole256

So I guess my question would be this... Why open carry? Why not conceal? It seems to me, that if you carry a fire arm for self defense, concealment is smarter, because if I were to rob a store, the first thing I would do is shoot the person who is openly carrying a weapon...

If your not carrying for self defense, then why open carry?

For clarification, I am NOT AGAINST open carry, I am just not sure what the reasoning is...

Please see post #102
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...tml#post520532 (LEO encounter at Home Depot in Allentown)

This thread is NOT the place to post your opinion about OC or CC. As it only ends up DERAILING the thread with debate.

This is an important incident and the thread will remain on topic.