This is why I OC.

[Robert Kayland]

Originally Posted by headcase

Actually, there is such a thing as minding one's own business. This simple act of common courtesy being ignored in favor of every jackass voicing their opinion of something that has no direct impact on them, should not, and in fact does not, require anyone to exercise "eternal vigilance" by being a constant source of smiles and information, or any kind of forced ambassador, just because they choose to live their lives anyway they see fit. I, and most others who OC, tend to bend over backward in an effort to maintain a positive image of OC'ers, but you don't get to tell us what we should or shouldn't be doing, because you don't.

If there is a cause that is fighting an uphill battle in the minds of most citizens, it isn't OC'ing a firearm. There are probably about as many citizens worried about OC as there are actually OC'ing. Just because you happen to be in the, "If you OC the sky is going to fall on me and my right to CC", camp(never mind that you, in fact, have no "right" to CC, as it is regulated everywhere in this Commonwealth, and OC is not, except for Philadelphia) should really not be a reason for you to project your phobia upon the masses. I am not grateful for rights we maintain. I am grateful that people have stood up, at the cost of life and limb, to secure those rights when they have been threatened. Consider the bravery and backbone those people displayed, and be grateful not one of them thought as you do.

Sheesh, somebody who spends his time biting his nails over how others actions are going to effect his lifestyle, judging whether or not people, who actually do attempt to preserve their rights on a daily basis, deserve them, is nauseating.

I see I've wandered too close to the sacred cow yet again by daring to mention a concern about individual self-restraint.

Me, I force said ambassadorship only upon myself... and merely attempt to encourage the role in others by being a constant source of smiles and information.

For someone who claims to bend over backwards, you sound quite inflexible to me.

[jcabin]

I'd like to thank everyone who's supported me in my decisions. To those of you who believed I had an underhanded or disingenuous to the 2nd amendment intent while OC'ing I hope that I changed your mind, if owell. I think it is just as important for young people such as myself(22) to show the country we are responsible individuals with firearms and take self-defense seriously. The young, wannabe cowboy, ego boosting people are the ones that ruin it for everyone else right? Well I believe thats wrong. I believe it's up to the youth to show everyone by example that people my age can and will be responsible gun owners. That people my age can be upstanding members of society, yet preserve their right to defend their own lives and the lives of their loved ones.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by Robert Kayland

I see I've wandered too close to the sacred cow yet again by daring to mention a concern about individual self-restraint.

Me, I force said ambassadorship only upon myself... and merely attempt to encourage the role in others by being a constant source of smiles and information.

For someone who claims to bend over backwards, you sound quite inflexible to me.

You are partly correct. I can be extremely inflexible about a few things, racism, causing harm to a child, hypocrisy, for starters. I find it hard to sit by and allow these things to occur without calling people on them. You post that as long as someone who OC's is "a shining example of a calm and sometimes long-suffering individual more truly concerned with the principles behind 2a and your often thankless role as protector of those who don't always understand or appreciate you, rather than concerned with your own ego, and able to resist the temptation of a defiant attitude that only drives otherwise neutral folks off the fence to start thinking about more restrictive gun control", then they are worthy or deserved of the rights they exercise. They are under no such obligation, sir. At all. Their worthiness or deservedness to exercise any one of the numerous rights they inherently possess, is not contingent upon their being pleasant or patient, being nice or approachable, being in a good or bad mood, or quite frankly, measuring up to your ideal of a safely homogeneous, non wave making, poster child for gun rights. You have posted, on more than one occasion, that you don't believe people should OC because the attention they get will inevitably lead to you losing your ability to carry concealed. You posted here that the OP was one that no right thinking person could gain-say, then you proceed to gain-say it. You remark that if he meets the multi-faceted criteria you lay out, then he is indeed worthy to exercise his rights. I am not sorry to be the one who tells you that he is worthy of his rights whether he meets your criteria or not.

When you take it upon yourself to decide what defines worthiness to exercise rights that you yourself don't believe should be exercised, don't cry about cutting to close to sacred cows, when you get called out on it.

[BerksCountyDave]

Originally Posted by headcase

You are partly correct. I can be extremely inflexible about a few things, racism, causing harm to a child, hypocrisy, for starters. I find it hard to sit by and allow these things to occur without calling people on them. You post that as long as someone who OC's is "a shining example of a calm and sometimes long-suffering individual more truly concerned with the principles behind 2a and your often thankless role as protector of those who don't always understand or appreciate you, rather than concerned with your own ego, and able to resist the temptation of a defiant attitude that only drives otherwise neutral folks off the fence to start thinking about more restrictive gun control", then they are worthy or deserved of the rights they exercise. They are under no such obligation, sir. At all. Their worthiness or deservedness to exercise any one of the numerous rights they inherently possess, is not contingent upon their being pleasant or patient, being nice or approachable, being in a good or bad mood, or quite frankly, measuring up to your ideal of a safely homogeneous, non wave making, poster child for gun rights. You have posted, on more than one occasion, that you don't believe people should OC because the attention they get will inevitably lead to you losing your ability to carry concealed. You posted here that the OP was one that no right thinking person could gain-say, then you proceed to gain-say it. You remark that if he meets the multi-faceted criteria you lay out, then he is indeed worthy to exercise his rights. I am not sorry to be the one who tells you that he is worthy of his rights whether he meets your criteria or not.

When you take it upon yourself to decide what defines worthiness to exercise rights that you yourself don't believe should be exercised, don't cry about cutting to close to sacred cows, when you get called out on it.

I couldn't have said it any better. I would rep you, but I need to spread the love.

[Robert Kayland]

When you take it upon yourself to decide what defines worthiness to exercise rights that you yourself don't believe should be exercised, don't cry about cutting to close to sacred cows, when you get called out on it.

I made a simple statement of opinion about what I admire and consider "worthy", and for some odd reason, you go out of your way to rail against me personally?

Since when does what I think translate into defining all things to all people and constitute a demand upon them?

I'm getting a little tired of the raw nerves amongst some of you posters.

Either tone down the headcase behavior or do us both a favor and put me on "ignore".

[headcase]

Originally Posted by Robert Kayland

I made a simple statement of opinion about what I admire and consider "worthy", and for some odd reason, you go out of your way to rail against me personally?

Since when does what I think translate into defining all things to all people and constitute a demand upon them?

I'm getting a little tired of the raw nerves amongst some of you posters.

Either tone down the headcase behavior or do us both a favor and put me on "ignore".

We both know that was not what you did. We also both know that I asked a clarifying question, and you expanded. If you are tired of so called raw nerves, then I submit that you stop intentionally rubbing against them. As for toning my behavior down, I don't see my posts as being in need of toning down. I think they are quite toned down already. In respect to putting you on ignore, well, sir, once again, you don't get to tell me what to do, or have you not noticed the commonality of the responses you get?

And please, if you choose to post, I suggest you think your posts through, post them, and then stand by your position, or if your position changes, post so. This habit you, and others in your camp, have of posting, then watering down, then complaining, is really annoying. Be prepared to defend your position. I do mine. And in the rare event I am turned around, or proven misinformed, I have the decency to publicly acknowledge these events.

[Robert Kayland]

Originally Posted by headcase

We both know that was not what you did.

You assume too much. You saw shadows where none existed, and perhaps projected whatever "let's stir up the peanut gallery" motives which you might have had onto me.

We also both know that I asked a clarifying question, and you expanded.

Now who's being disingenuous? I think it's pretty clear you were just stirring for an argument, rather than merely letting my original post, which praised the OP highly, stand on its own merits.

If you are tired of so called raw nerves, then I submit that you stop intentionally rubbing against them. As for toning my behavior down, I don't see my posts as being in need of toning down.

Of course you don't... as the saying goes, no back is so tender as one's own.

In respect to putting you on ignore, well, sir, once again, you don't get to tell me what to do, or have you not noticed the commonality of the responses you get?

You're obviously one of those "nobody tells ME what to do!" types... which is why this latest tempest in a teapot arose to being with.

As far as "commonality of responses", that's easily attributable to the same type of 'circle the wagons' knee-jerk reaction mentality amongst those of any given persuasion.

And for the record, I get an equally common response, usually through rep and private messages because people don't really want too put up with BS such as yours, which agree with my points of view.

And please, if you choose to post, I suggest you think your posts through, post them, and then stand by your position, or if your position changes, post so. This habit you, and others in your camp, have of posting, then watering down, then complaining, is really annoying. Be prepared to defend your position. I do mine. And in the rare event I am turned around, or proven misinformed, I have the decency to publicly acknowledge these events.

Now you're totally off the deep end... I've been steadfast for the most part with my positions, and in those cases where the other side says something of merit I've readily acknowledged them... as a few of the more right-minded opponents have done to me.

What's truly annoying is your misguided interpretations of what is being said and taking it all as if it's a personal affront to you.

Just get over yourself... or at least try to find ways of being less annoyed, hence annoying.

I hope we're done here now. Or if you need to get in a last word, go ahead.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by Robert Kayland

You assume too much. You saw shadows where none existed, and perhaps projected whatever "let's stir up the peanut gallery" motives which you might have had onto me.

I assume nothing. I read what you wrote, and asked a question, which you answered in the exact vein your post was written in.

Now who's being disingenuous? I think it's pretty clear you were just stirring for an argument, rather than merely letting my original post, which praised the OP highly, stand on its own merits.

Your post had no merit. It served as an opportunity for you to camouflage yet another barbed assault on OC'ers, about how our flaunting ourselves will get your ability to CC taken away. You fake praise his post, then list a mile long set of conditions that must be met in order for his actions to be acceptable.

Of course you don't... as the saying goes, no back is so tender as one's own.

I am pretty well informed on when my posts extend past the line of civility. When I heatedly post something that crosses the line, I have no problem deleting it or apologizing if it can not be deleted. This exchange does not come close to the line, IMO.

You're obviously one of those "nobody tells ME what to do!" types... which is why this latest tempest in a teapot arose to being with.

Again, you are partially correct. I am a "nobody tells me what to do" type when someone with no valid point of reference attempts to tell me, or someone else, what to do when they have no experience, or valid justification, to back up their demands or suggestions.

As far as "commonality of responses", that's easily attributable to the same type of 'circle the wagons' knee-jerk reaction mentality amongst those of any given persuasion.

Or..... it could be that the rubbish you espouse gets the responses it deserves from people who actually know......

And for the record, I get an equally common response, usually through rep and private messages because people don't really want too put up with BS such as yours, which agree with my points of view.

....Or.....they share the same view but understand it's lack of defensibility and therefore are happy to let you stand in the line of fire.

Now you're totally off the deep end... I've been steadfast for the most part with my positions, and in those cases where the other side says something of merit I've readily acknowledged them... as a few of the more right-minded opponents have done to me.

Most of this has happened when you seem to back off your ridiculous position and allow a grain of common sense to intrude. You then, just as quickly, revert back to your original argument, I guess feeling a bit more accepted, and get blasted by the same people who attempted to offer an olive branch..Or at least it seems that way to me, from the past exchanges I have read.

What's truly annoying is your misguided interpretations of what is being said and taking it all as if it's a personal affront to you.

It is a personal affront to me, when someone disparages what I do, even when it is directed at someone else, especially when that disparagement comes from someone with zero practical knowledge of the topic.

Just get over yourself... or at least try to find ways of being less annoyed, hence annoying.

I am far too sexy to get over myself.

If you would simply stop being hypocritical and stand by your beliefs, instead of playing at being enlightened, so as to make it easier to slide little comments into your posts, while using the big smile, politician like, fake praise to point to when you get called out, I would be much less annoyed.

I hope we're done here now. Or if you need to get in a last word, go ahead.

Classic, "now look, he won't stop attacking me", closing line set up.

Please feel free to continue being a silly rabbit.

[glock27owner]

Let me start by saying I am not against OCing in anyway. I n fact I am tempted to try it but the fact we have LEO's who will harrass and interrupt my day if even for 15-20 mins. if not hrs. I support all of you that OC. Maybe one day I will try it. But what do I say to my wife when I want to? She doesn't want the fact that I OC to make a negative vibe between us and the local police.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by glock27owner

Let me start by saying I am not against OCing in anyway. I n fact I am tempted to try it but the fact we have LEO's who will harrass and interrupt my day if even for 15-20 mins. if not hrs. I support all of you that OC. Maybe one day I will try it. But what do I say to my wife when I want to? She doesn't want the fact that I OC to make a negative vibe between us and the local police.

Whether you do OC or not, is up to you and your comfort level. You need not do it to exercise a right, or make a statement, or because some said you can or can't. All you need is the desire to carry openly, to actually carry openly, because it is not illegal to do so. As for what you say to your wife, why do you need to say anything? If you do open carry, and she has something to say, then her demeanor and the content of her opinion will dictate what you say. If you do want to OC, search the many threads on the topic for suggested ways to make it a safe, enjoyable, and liberating experience.