LEO's and Open Carry

[Mtbkski]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

The person in this incident cited the state law, by number, that makes the local ord illegal.
Would you not consider that "reason to believe"?

AHHHH, you mere amatuers. You have no idea what it means to be lied to by people that literally lie for a living. I had no idea how well people could actually lie till I starting working where I do.

Working in a State Penn. I can tell you. Most of these people are gifted liers.They can make you second guess yourself in a heartbeat. Yes, they could make PaPatriot have to stop and think, if OC was legal or not for a second or two. It is amazing.

So, when dealing with people like this "most" of the time when you go to work everyday. How is a LEO going to recognize the good clean living, honest person from the professional con man who is a gifted liar. Trust me you can't.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

AHHHH, you mere amatuers. You have no idea what it means to be lied to by people that literally lie for a living. I had no idea how well people could actually lie till I starting working where I do

I didn't say take his word on it.... I said call for clarification when an otherwise straight and professional looking/acting person gives you this very specific (IE; real, real easy to check) information.

[markheck1]

Originally Posted by sgt7546

I've heard the "this is legal", check here, call him, do this....litterally 1000 times. If I were there and didn't know the ordinance was illegal than I would issue the citation.


It's kinda like any other job, how many of us have worked for a company that has some type of SOP, which you follow, then at some point its changed about 180 degrees, because OSHA or some other regulatory agency decided you were doing it wrong. The company changes to comply. I don't know many if any Officers that would KNOWINGLY arrest for a bad law.

I can see where a criminal will use any method necessary to get out of being arrested....and i am sure you get that all of the time.....but wouldn't the detainee giving you a statute number make you curious enough to look it up?

If not right on scene, but maybe later ?

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by sgt7546

Yeah thats kinda my take on it as well. I know I never learned a thing about OC in the academy, nor in any of the mandatory yearly legal updates.

Imagine that?

The sarcasm is not directed towards you.

I've been arguing all along, that nobody, in any profession, knows everything about their occupation. The argument that if the detainee advises the cop as to his error, that they should simply take their word for it is unrealistic.

Can you imagine the headlines if a cop were to take someone's word for it, regardless of the issue, let's the guy go, and then the guy goes off and commits a crime and there were witnesses within ear shot of the discussion?

Now you have a victim, a cop whose career is about to end and an administration about to get sued. This is why you'll never convince a cop that you know the law and he is wrong, even when you do and he is.

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

AHHHH, you mere amatuers. You have no idea what it means to be lied to by people that literally lie for a living. I had no idea how well people could actually lie till I starting working where I do.

Working in a State Penn. I can tell you. Most of these people are gifted liers.They can make you second guess yourself in a heartbeat. Yes, they could make PaPatriot have to stop and think, if OC was legal or not for a second or two. It is amazing.

So, when dealing with people like this "most" of the time when you go to work everyday. How is a LEO going to recognize the good clean living, honest person from the professional con man who is a gifted liar. Trust me you can't.

Are LEO's not trained in that field of psychology?
I was under the impession they went through special training for that sort of situation.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by fingers80002

Do LEO's have access to DA's after "normal working hours" for inquiries about such issues?

I believe they do but that's not to say the ADA will be any better informed than the responding LE.

[sgt7546]

Originally Posted by markheck1

I can see where a criminal will use any method necessary to get out of being arrested....and i am sure you get that all of the time.....but wouldn't the detainee giving you a statute number make you curious enough to look it up?

If not right on scene, but maybe later ?

Yeah after the fact, if I recalled the statute number it would peak my curiosity, because I'm like that, but on scene, so long as I knew there was a law on the books, I'd still cite for it.

[Pa. Patriot]

I would say that not following-up on the (very specific) information in a situation lie this (normal, non-threatening person who checks out) is unreasonable.
Any criticism of a police officer for not following up is well deserved, again, IMO.

[HiredGoon]

Originally Posted by fingers80002

That is one of the things I was trying to find out. Who was responsible for the training cirriculum. That is where we need to start the change in attitude and training on how to deal with a citizen OC'ing.

One place to start would be here:
Municipal Police Officers' Education & Training Commission

[stevieb92]

Can't something be issued through the FoP to inform about the legality of OC? Top down so to speak?