Violated in Wilkes-Barre for open-carry!

[exceltoexcel]

Originally Posted by jerkin

How about the guy after PAPatriot that said you can carry any gun however you want in your vehicle as long as it's not loaded. No separation of the ammunition, no lock box, nothing. You only need a ltcf to carry it loaded. Someone should have called in and informed him that even the frame of a handgun with no ammunition can land you in jail.

I do not believe this is correct. Check out title 18
My concern is if you are taking it as a blanket fact.

Only while going to and from the range.. Don't stop to get a sandwich...

http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6106.html
§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
Members of the army, navy or marine corps of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this Commonwealth.
Any persons engaged in target shooting with rifle, pistol, or revolver, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the cartridges or shells are carried in a separate container and the rifle, pistol or revolver is unloaded.

Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.
Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.
Any person while carrying a firearm unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police) or to a location to which the person has been directed to surrender firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the surrendered firearm.
Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.
Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

(c) Sportsman's firearm permit.--

Before any exception shall be granted under paragraph (b)(9) or (10) of this section to any person 18 years of age or older licensed to hunt, trap or fish or who has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, such person shall, at the time of securing his hunting, furtaking or fishing license or any time after such license has been issued, secure a sportsman's firearm permit from the county treasurer. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be issued immediately and be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years from the date of issue for any legal firearm, when carried in conjunction with a valid hunting, furtaking or fishing license or permit relating to hunting dogs. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be in triplicate on a form to be furnished by the Pennsylvania State Police. The original permit shall be delivered to the person, and the first copy thereof, within seven days, shall be forwarded to the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police by the county treasurer. The second copy shall be retained by the county treasurer for a period of two years from the date of expiration. The county treasurer shall be entitled to collect a fee of not more than $6 for each such permit issued, which shall include the cost of any official form. The Pennsylvania State Police may recover from the county treasurer the cost of any such form, but may not charge more than $1 for each official permit form furnished to the county treasurer.
Any person who sells or attempts to sell a sportsman's firearm permit for a fee in excess of that amount fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.

(d) Revocation of registration.--Any registration of a firearm under subsection (c) of this section may be revoked by the county treasurer who issued it, upon written notice to the holder thereof.

[pex]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

i am one who speaks loudly against the erosion of the bill of rights and the incremental implementation of a police state in america, but the nazi's were much more than just a police state.

they exterminated over 10 million people in a few years (6 million of them just for being jewish). no one in america is doing anything even remotely like that.

How could we ever exemplify and compare any two things if they must be exact in every specification, through every dimension?

I think humans would remain at a great learning disadvantage if that standard is applied.

[mjfletcher]

Originally Posted by pex

How could we ever exemplify and compare any two things if they must be exact in every specification, through every dimension?

I think humans would remain at a great learning disadvantage if that standard is applied.

The biggest issue with making references to anything when attempting to demonstrate a point is keeping in mind what imagery the reference will bring to the mind of the reader. People here nazi references, and the first thing they think of is concentration camps, so even though you may intend the reference to refer to the trampling of rights, that is not how the average person will see it.

Average Joe Reader hears nazi, pictures concentration camps, seen no corelation between that and what happened, and assumes the person/group that made the statement are crazy, or conspiracy theorists, or extremits, etc.

We need to make sure that any comparisons we make are ones that will cause the reader to see it the same way we intend it. Basic human, civil, and constitutional rights were violated; a better reference would be to the political prisoners in china whos only crime was speaking against the actions of the government. Common knowledge that China and Human Rights don't go together, and that China violates human rights under the guise of "the public good." Rather than referencing Nazi's, referencing college students who were imprisoned simply for asking to vote for their leaders will ensure that the reader sees "violation of rights" rather than "gas chamber."

[Pa. Patriot]

Let's please try and steer this back on topic.

[exceltoexcel]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Let's please try and steer this back on topic.

The nazis weren't even real they were all orb people.

LOL

AT this point I don't even remember what this thread is supposed to be about...

[sprat]

Nazi allergory
is wrong as stated above

STASI is correct, right country wrong era, the East German Stasi were a repressive police organization also known as the Ministry of State Security equal to most police origanizations found in the PRNJ, NYC

the actions of the Dickson City police and the Wilkes Barre Police are actions learned from the Stasi as in your papers please

sprat

[CCinPA]

Originally Posted by mystery_man

Hello everyone! I'm new to this board but have been posting over at opencarry.org for a little while now. I wanted to share with you what happened to me in Wilkes-Barre on Saturday.

I was out for a walk after dinner (open-carrying).
Wilkes-Barre City police stopped me because someone called 911.
My firearm was taken from me.
I was cursed at and insulted.
Then I was told that open-carry is not allowed.
That only police officers can open-carry.
And that Pennsylvania doesn't recognize any out-of-state concealed carry permits.
They gave no legal reason for the seizure of my firearm.
And if I wanted my firearm back I would have to go down to police HQ on Monday with a lawyer.
I have contacted an attorney and am following his instructions.

Your thoughts, comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
A.J.

MM,

First I would like to apologize for not addressing your post when it first was posted but I have have been aware of your situation and following it in a bit of a different way. I want to welcome you to PAFOA and as Greg stated sorry your arrival here is under such circumstances, I also want to tell you I am sorry that some PA police just don't belong in uniform and as we all can see it is obvious you ran into some.

From what I know you are in exceptional hands in terms of personal and legal advice so keep on tract with your fight and keep us posted with what you are allowed and never be compelled to divulge anything that could weaken your position. Fight it to the end and don't back down.

[Petalpusher]

Originally Posted by BlownNitroPontiac

This is only the beginning.

If LEOs KNEW the law, they'd be lawyers.

Speaking from personal experience LEO's know the law but they are only required to "know" what they are taught, according to this forum you CAN carry in Philly (this I strongly believe!) But in police academy we learned that you cannot. I feel sorry for the LEO's who let their job get to their head and do not follow up with their own studies and knowledge of the law. This is just bad "parenting" on the instructors. No one ever said there's more to learn, no one ever said, the rules will change daily. Politics and the boys club are key in this field! This is why I am no longer associated with a Law enforcement career....
<should done this with my college fund woulda been put to better use!

[Steve in PA]

Taught in the academy you can't carry in Philly?? Which academy was this and who were the instructors?

Just what law were they basing this on???

[lildobe]

Posted under Fair Use

http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/ne...d=571464&rfi=6

06/11/2008
BEAT REPORTS: ‘Open carry’ issue occurs in city
BOB KALINOWSKI , FIRE/POLICE PATROL

A simmering issue over the right to openly bear arms in public made its way to Wilkes-Barre this weekend.

Police stopped a New Jersey man with a gun in a holster on his hip around 9:30 p.m. Saturday at Sherman and South streets.

Upon questioning the man, police seized his gun and took it to headquarters. He was then free to go and wasn’t charged.

Officers took the gun because initial reports were the man had the gun in his hand and “proper ownership of the weapon could not be established,” the city said in a press release Tuesday. The gun will remain in police custody until ownership is established, the release said.

A dozen members of a gun rights group brought this “open carry” issue to the forefront last month by openly carrying their guns into dinner at a Dickson City restaurant. The group is criticizing Wilkes-Barre police’s actions.

“They had no lawful right to seize his property. There is no more reason to establish ownership of a handgun than it is for your cell phone,” said Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org. “We now have two instances in the same region of Pennsylvania in which police think they could confiscate guns under this color of proving ownership.”

Pennsylvania does not have a gun registry. A Philadelphia lawmaker last year introduced a bill to create one, but it failed badly.

In the aftermath of the Dickson City case, Lackawanna County District Attorney Andy Jarbola said, in general, people have a right to openly carry a weapon without having to show identification or a permit.

“Police can ask, but if they don’t want to give it, they don’t have to,” he said. “It’s going to be surprising to the public, but that’s the current state of law.”

Police officials and attorneys at the time noted police could not confiscate someone’s gun to check ownership without reasonable suspicion.

Wilkes-Barre police say they were called to investigate the incident on Saturday when neighbors made a complaint of a man standing at East Northampton and Sherman streets with a gun in his hand.

That was not reasonable suspicion of any crime, said Stollenwerk.

Stollenwerk is not sure how exactly the man will “establish ownership.” Some gun owners do not have any paper documentation, he said.

“I have nothing, except that it’s on my hip or in my gun safe,” he said.

City spokeswoman Bridget Giunta said the person was stopped because “officers responded to a complaint of a man with a gun in his hand.” She said weapon ownership information is maintained by the state police and stolen status can also be ascertained by running the serial number through a database.

The “open carry” movement is apparently gaining popularity nationwide. The Los Angeles Times last week published a comprehensive story about the growing movement, noting it is legal, but often frowned upon by police.

The story was called, “Packing in public: Gun owners tired of hiding their weapons embrace ‘open carry.’”

Bob Kalinowski covers the area’s police and fire community. He can be reached at 821-2055 or bkalinowski@citizensvoice.com.

Emphasis mine... I think she needs some education - It sounds like she believes that there is a gun registry in PA...