Violated in Wilkes-Barre for open-carry!

[jayPA]

Originally Posted by JoeWilliams

I agree. We need to make clear that having 2A rights trampled on isn't JUST a gun issue. Incidents like this attack FAR more than just our gun rights.

Thank you; I figure just because we shoot within the rings doesn't mean that we can't think outside the box.

[Defender]

Oh no, not again! An oc protest march might get their attention.

[Mtbkski]

Originally Posted by jayPA

Though I hate to be redundant, as I had said in the thread about Pa Patriot / Dickson City issue, this should be pressed as a Fourth Amendment issue. If the masses read this to be a Second Amendment issue, they will automatically jump to "Gun-Nut" assumptions. The violation of the right of the people to be secure... against unreasonable searches and seizures is something that all citizens can relate to, pro- and anti-gun alike.

Originally Posted by jayPA

Thank you; I figure just because we shoot within the rings doesn't mean that we can't think outside the box.

Rep points to you for the first post. And I loved the second post. Your going to do well here if you keep that up.

just because we shoot within the rings doesn't mean that we can't think outside the box

Oh that is just so cleaver. I love it.

[Montana]

And Yes, we're still watching things unfold from Big Sky Country. Too bad we don't have Open Carry like you folks. We can open carry outside of city limits/logging/mining camps, but inside city limits it's strictly CCW with permit.

[headcase]

Sorry you had to go through this nonsense. I hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction and that they all pay through the nose. You have my full support.

[SFaulken]

Montana:

Who told you that open carry within the city limits is Illegal in Montana?

I grew up in Red Lodge, and I can assure you, that just walking down the streets, within the city limits of any town in Montana, with an openly carried firearm, is perfectly legal. There are some restrictions concerning Public Buildings and Schools, and of course Private Property, where the owner asks you not to, or posts that weapons are not allowed.

Check this link, it pretty well backs me up, as does Montana Statute (Available from the Montana AG's website)
http://opencarry.org

Just click on the pretty yellow state of Montana.

[DPH11]

Sorry that you had to experience such a scenario... I've never dealt with WBPD (thankfully!), but have seen them in action, and I can't say that I am surprised at all...

It is very encouraging to see such support from our "family" on here, though... Thanks to the internet for allowing us such a means to keep in contact and support each other in times of need!

[jayPA]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

Rep points to you for the first post. And I loved the second post. Your going to do well here if you keep that up.

just because we shoot within the rings doesn't mean that we can't think outside the box

Oh that is just so cleaver. I love it.

It was a toss up between "just because we shoot within the rings doesn't mean that we can't think outside the box" and "just because we shoot within the rings doesn't mean that we have to jump through your hoops"

Seriously, though, the OPs report is infuriating, and makes me wonder, as others have suggested, what do we need to do to educate the masses / LEO that "Man with gun!!" (holstered // un-brandished) is not a threat?
Maybe a few 911 calls of "Man with car keys!!" (statistics show that you're more likely to suffer ailment at the hand of a fender).

And though I may appear clever, stay away from me with your cleaver... that may just incite me to draw.

[Statkowski]

stay away from me with your cleaver

Was that Ward, June, Wally or "The Beaver?"

[mjfletcher]

Originally Posted by JoeWilliams

The problem with NOT calling those JBTs what they are is that it softens the impact of having government agents illegally steal from us, of having government agents knowingly and willfully violate the law and our rights. For years, we've soft pedaled what scum like those criminals with badges do to our rights and freedoms because we don't want to appear mean, uncivilized, or hurt somebody's feelings.

And for years, we've seen those violations of our rights continue to grow. Acting like proper ladies hasn't worked. I think it's time we call cops who act like the SS what they are.

Jack Booted Thugs.

You be nice if you want. Personally, I'm getting increasingly tired of law abiding citizens being stomped on and the freedom I and so many others fought for being pissed on because some thug feels the urge and thinks his badge gives him the right to be a criminal.

The point I was making is that if we resort to using phrases that result in the average person immediately assuming we're a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theorist nutjobs, we've just done more harm to our own credibility than anyone else could no matter how hard they tried. If we give the general public reason to call us conspiracy nutjobs, they'll decide we're just like the radiation lady at the DC council meeting.

I'm just as tired of rights being violated as a matter of SOP, but i'm not going to play into the hands of those who violate those rights by helping them make me look like a fringe lunatic.

People are used to politicians believing themselves above the law, so if we say "the lackawana county politicians think they're above the law" the average citizen will respond with "they all think they are."

People are used to individuals with badges getting an "i am the law" complex, so if we say "these officers forgot that they're supposed to enforce the law and they aren't the law" the average citizen will say "They think a badge makes them god."

If we say "they're a bunch of jack booted thugs" the average citizen will say "right, and next you'll be telling me the government implanted a chip in your head and is reading your brainwaves" and will assume that everything negative being said about us is true.

TPTB are trying to paint us as a bunch of paranoid nutjobs, how we conduct ourselves and the words we use when discussing these issues will either confirm or refute those claims. We can state the cold, hard fact that "agents of the government illegally siezed our property," that there are "police officers who knowingly violate the laws they're supposed to enforce because they think they are above the law," and that there are "criminals hiding behind badges violating our Constitutinal rights" without using words and phrases that will portray us in the manner that TPTB are trying to do.

If we confirm those claims made abuot us, we may as well lay down and surrender because we'll never get the popular support needed to implement real change. If we refute those claims, the public will have their eyes opened to the reality that their own rights are threatened as well.