Pa. Patriot ARRESTED at the OC dinner @ The Old Country Buffet in Dickson City 5/9

[Damage control]

Posted over at open carry;

Federal Judge: Videotaping Police Traffic Stops OK
A federal court has ruled police cannot arrest a man for peacefully videotaping a traffic stop.

A federal judge ruled Tuesday that Pennsylvania state troopers violated the constitutional rights of a man they arrested for videotaping police while they performed roadside inspections. Allen Robinson, 44, had seen the police stop big-rig trucks on the side of Route 41 in Chester County and believed the safety inspections themselves were creating a traffic hazard. He wanted to document the situation with his camcorder so that he could show it to his state representative. After obtaining the permission of a nearby landowner he peacefully videotaped the officers from twenty feet away in August 2000 and again in October 2002. On both occasions, Robinson was arrested for harassment and convicted by a local judge.

"We are not dealing with a 'close case,'" Judge Harvey Bartle III of the US District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania wrote in overturning the 2002 conviction. "There was no justification for the actions of defendants in violating Robinson's right to free speech and his right to be secure in his person against an unreasonable seizure."

Tuesday's decision also ordered the police to pay $35,000 in compensatory damages. The arresting officers -- Patrick Fetterman, John Rigney, and Gregg Riek -- must also each pay Robinson $2,000 in punitive damages.

"To defendants, Robinson was a gadfly," Judge Bartle concluded. "In their view, he was annoying them. It is fundamental that persons such as Robinson may not be deprived of their constitutional rights simply because they are unpopular or disliked or are resented by the police."

Full decision available below in 147K PDF format.

Source: Robinson v. Fetterman (US District Court, Eastern PA, 7/19/2005)

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/541.asp

[LM4300]

[QUOTE
You're painting with an awfully broad brush. Quite frankly, it's insulting.

There are certainly examples of police officers who have stepped over the line. I don't dispute that; we can all point to examples of misconduct in any field. The vast, overwhelming majority of cops are honest, hardworking, and risk their lives daily to ensure a modicum of safety for everyone. To slander police officers in as general a manner as you have is unwarranted.

While we're discussing articulation, you should know this- it doesn't matter how you say something if what you're saying is worthless. The fact that someone can make an argument that the sky is purple because, as you say, it contains red and blue doesn't make the argument hold water.

A Terry stop is only permissible when an officer has reasonable suspicion based on articulable facts that a crime is being, or is about to be, committed. Those facts can be interpreted through the prism of that particular officer's experience and training, which means that each of the officers on this forum could see the same thing and come to a different conclusion. One of us might be able to support a Terry stop with a certain set of facts where another officer couldn't simply because that guy has a deeper/different knowledge base.

In this case, as it has been presented here, I would argue that P/O Gallagher failed to meet her burden. There should be sanctions.[/quote]

Again +1 to PoliceMedic. How Ofc Gallagher can articulate her reasoning for the frisk/search is beyond me. For now we don't know how this call was dispatched to them, but from all reports from the forum so far, I don't see how anyone there acted in a way that would cause someone to report a crime.

I agree there should be sanctions against these officers and accurate training mandated across the state as a result.

There is an air of police hatred brewing amongst the 50+ pages of this thread.
Please don't lump us all in with the likes of these DCPD officers. There are those of us out there that support this issue and those involved.

I can see a roll-call training session soon at my workplace. I dont know of any similar calls of anyone OCing in my area, but I don't want any of my coworkers to cause such a clusterF...

[GlockJock]

I found this link to a political website in the Scranton, Dickson city area. It seems that they don't understand what happened and they are uninformed of the laws. I'm a new poster and still I am trying to understand all that happened that night. I would hope that one of the mods or more experienced posters could register and get these guys straightened out on the rights and laws for gun owners in the state.

[sgser]

Pa.Patriot (and all who stand with him),

I won’t wish you good luck in your meeting with the DC Police Chief and whoever else he might have waiting for you. I don’t think luck plays a part in what you are doing. You have the facts of the law to rely on and it is clear, from what was posted, that those whose obligation it was to uphold the law abrogated their responsibility to do so. By their actions, it would seem that they violated the law.

The issue has been raised and is being met, by you. And, although many are willing to stand with you, you are the one who is going to shoulder this issue. I have no doubt that you will do so with the stalwart determination to preserve our rights. Not only the right to OC, but to all the rights of the gun owing citizens here in the Commonwealth.

It is obvious that you have the backing of the members of PaFOA as well many in the gun community at large. I am sure that how ever far you want to take this issue that that backing will remain and grow even larger.

I understand that a decision regarding Heller might come down today. Whatever that is, I can’t help but feel more eager, following your meeting with the DC Chief, to hear your report.

Steve

[Bmaninmifco]

Originally Posted by GlockJock

I found this link to a political website in the Scranton, Dickson city area. It seems that they don't understand what happened and they are uninformed of the laws. I'm a new poster and still I am trying to understand all that happened that night. I would hope that one of the mods or more experienced posters could register and get these guys straightened out on the rights and laws for gun owners in the state.

Misinformation is the biggest thing some LEO's have going for them

[Willie D]

That "press release" reads like the Turner Diaries or something. Really stupid.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by LM4300

There is an air of police hatred brewing amongst the 50+ pages of this thread.
Please don't lump us all in with the likes of these DCPD officers. There are those of us out there that support this issue and those involved. .

I think the ire is directed at those in the wrong. I hope people do not take this thread as cop bashing because it is not, IMO, from what I have read.

That said, I do agree with your point. I personally can say until Friday evening I have had nothing but GOOD encounters with police as a result of my open carrying. And there have been numerous, including incidents that willingly walked TO police officers, for various issues, while OC.

I have said many times on this forum that while OC education is very much needed in PA, and while helping initiate the eduction (LEO open carry memo's, etc) that in my personal experiences with OC around the state including conversations with many leo's, that the overwhelming majority of PA LEO's are educated on the subject. As such, IMO, that same vast majority of LEO's would NEVER have conducted themselves in the manner we saw Friday at OCB.

Now, not related to the above discussion or person I am replying to, but rather a general statement:
I want to make sure this stays on track. If this thread turns into a LEO bashing thread in any way please report post and I will personally deal with the issue.

[mcarroll1987]

Originally Posted by GlockJock

I found this link to a political website in the Scranton, Dickson city area. It seems that they don't understand what happened and they are uninformed of the laws. I'm a new poster and still I am trying to understand all that happened that night. I would hope that one of the mods or more experienced posters could register and get these guys straightened out on the rights and laws for gun owners in the state.

Anyone read that? Holy crap.

[Damage control]

Originally Posted by GlockJock

I found this link to a political website in the Scranton, Dickson city area. It seems that they don't understand what happened and they are uninformed of the laws. I'm a new poster and still I am trying to understand all that happened that night. I would hope that one of the mods or more experienced posters could register and get these guys straightened out on the rights and laws for gun owners in the state.

Please post the content of that site for I can not get it to open.

Thank you
DC

[Pyrotek85]

Here are the current 4 posts:

Gun incident at Old Country Buffet leaves lots of questions

Post 1
A few days ago, several people walked into the Old Country Buffet in Dickson City openly carrying weapons, various kinds of pistols in particular. From what I can gather, there was actually a group of them celebrating their right to openly carry firearms. Police were called and the incident led to some of those people being removed from the establishment, and having their guns removed, because they didn't have their permits with them. They later returned to the restaurant.

My only question, aside from the fact that the law provides that a person with a permit may carry a gun in the open, at least from what I understand of the gun laws, is why would anyone want to walk into a family restaurant on Mother's Day with a gun exposed? Allowed or not, my view of that is that it's poor judgment. Are the kids in the place not supposed to be intimidated by the sight of a group of men carrying guns openly? It's a guy thing, apparently, that lends itself to how some men think when their identities are suffering from some other form of abandonement. No toys as kids? I don't know, but grouping together with guns showing, and entering a family restaurant is way beyond acceptable conduct for any normal man, and I stress the word normal.

I'm all for the right to bear arms, but for the immature men out there who don't know any better, I can guarantee you that you can certainly have breakfast in this country without feeling threatened by people eating bacon and eggs.

Post 2
It's my understanding that unless your an office of the law, you cannot walk around with your gun exposed.

It's my understanding that after the Black Panthers followed police around with their guns exposed-- making sure the police did not engage in brutality--that a law was passed in the 1960s that forced gun owners to conceal their weapon.

Post 3
Those men who have to carry a gun all the time are usually displaying the only kind of real firepower they have. They're duds otherwise in every sense of the word. I think I'd put my own husband down if he ever pulled that stunt on me in public. I'd be embarrassed beyond belief.

Post 4
Joe, I think that happened before Mother's Day, but the point is well made. It's a family restaurant for God's sake, why walk in there with guns showing? I have a relative who has to carry his gun with him everywhere, but he never exposes it. I don't like it when he comes over with it and I've often told him not to do it. It makes no sense. Leave the gun home unless you've been threatened or you're law enforcement.