Pa. Patriot ARRESTED at the OC dinner @ The Old Country Buffet in Dickson City 5/9

[gold cup abuser]

well heres an idea on how to get the good folks at MPOETC to listen up....


if they are a state funded agency then its just a matter to find out who sits on the commitee that gives the state funding to MPOECT.

then a group of members here goes to make an appoitntment to see all of the members of the commitee and lets them know about this lack of training and lobbys them to incorportate into the manual a section on OC and the prevailing laws on this matter.

also a simila lobbying effort should be directed towards the Speaker of the House of Rep and the Speaker Pro Teme to see if they can get the ball moving on this deficiency.

might just work

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by gold cup abuser

well heres an idea on how to get the good folks at MPOETC to listen up....


if they are a state funded agency then its just a matter to find out who sits on the commitee that gives the state funding to MPOECT.

then a group of members here goes to make an appoitntment to see all of the members of the commitee and lets them know about this lack of training and lobbys them to incorportate into the manual a section on OC and the prevailing laws on this matter.

also a simila lobbying effort should be directed towards the Speaker of the House of Rep and the Speaker Pro Teme to see if they can get the ball moving on this deficiency.

might just work

In response to the bold, that is the problem!!!!!!!
Until fast eddie is out you haven't a chance!
Then it is an uphill fight!

[38SnubFan]

Originally Posted by fingers80002

In response to the bold, that is the problem!!!!!!!
Until fast eddie is out you haven't a chance!
Then it is an uphill fight!

"Fast Eddie" doesn't get the final say on everything though guys, so let's keep this in perspective.

Even our DDD of a governor is still required to abide by the PA Constitution.

-38SnubFan

[Sigchaser]

Ok I think that I hit every page in this thread which was my goal before I put in my two cents. First I am sorry that this happened to any of you. As to the officers I feel bad for them too they did what they thought was right and when they attempted to get answers from their chain of command it appears that they were let down. Open carry is allowed here in NH as well but appears to be less of an issue and even then the majority of officers that I know are aware of the law and the fact that no permit is required. I guess it all boils down to training, the officers were poorly trained, and did only what they felt they should, and unless they hurt more then feelings the incident should be nothing more then a tool as to how to handle these situations in the future.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Sigchaser

and unless they hurt more then feelings the incident should be nothing more then a tool as to how to handle these situations in the future.

Do you think they hurt more than feelings?

[Mtbkski]

Originally Posted by Sigchaser

and unless they hurt more then feelings the incident should be nothing more then a tool as to how to handle these situations in the future.

How many times were they allowed to "Hurt Your Feelings" in New Hampshire before someone would be allowed to say enough is enough and try to do something about it.

If you read thru this entire site. There are cases after cases of this happening. (I'm not ranting, I'm trying to make a point.) Are we just suppose to say, "OH, its OK. They are poorly trained. They can stop me and handcuff me and throw me in a cruiser and confiscate my firearm. It really isn't their fault. I'll forgive them this time."

It has got to start somewhere. And it has started here.

There is a second case I am anxiously watching concerning a guy whose lawyer is addressing via letter the last time I was on the sight, an issue of being stopped and a firearm being taken away (then returned) while on the Subway in Phila.
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...ion-phila.html

I was a LEO, and I will say this, not knowing the law, isn't an excuse if your a citizen. Why should it be for those that enforce it.

It is time to let them know they need to trained their people better, and that word will start to spread as of now.

[Sigchaser]

Hey its just my opinion but lets face it the officers training isn't their fault and thir chain of command let them down. To talk about them being bad cops goes to far did they make a mistake, yes but it was just that. As to how many times it took in NH that I don't knwo but then again the vast majority of people choose to conceal their guns instead of OC. There is nothing wrong with OC but don't act like it won't cause problems even if the complaint is unwarrented it still has to be addressed by the police and realisticly there are going to be citizens who are uncomfortable and call the police. I have not said anything bad about those who choose to OC but I have stood up for the officers involved and will continue to do so.

[ThomasJ]

Do you think they hurt more than feelings? I just find your response odd after you admitted to reading all 228 pages before you posted.

I have no problem calling them bad cops. And I have no problem saying the same thing about the chief given his statements and attitude in the wake of the incident.

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

How many times were they allowed to "Hurt Your Feelings" in New Hampshire before someone would be allowed to say enough is enough and try to do something about it.

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

It is time to let them know they need to trained their people better, and that word will start to spread as of now.

There is more than one effective option to do this.

The ultimate prize is to have rock solid case law with fully educated law enforcement departments. The management chain then needs to ensure/ENFORCE that the training is understood and followed. Consequences of department violations need to be non-judgmental and clear.

I'm not 100% clear or 'in the know' regarding the DC12's case strategy, but I hope that the 'ultimate prize', or something resembling it, is the number-one objective and the suit has requested penalties that accomplish as much.

I'm sure I'll be made clear of that shortly.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by Sigchaser

Ok I think that I hit every page in this thread which was my goal before I put in my two cents. First I am sorry that this happened to any of you. As to the officers I feel bad for them too they did what they thought was right and when they attempted to get answers from their chain of command it appears that they were let down. Open carry is allowed here in NH as well but appears to be less of an issue and even then the majority of officers that I know are aware of the law and the fact that no permit is required. I guess it all boils down to training, the officers were poorly trained, and did only what they felt they should, and unless they hurt more then feelings the incident should be nothing more then a tool as to how to handle these situations in the future.

I am not going to jump on this post, just try to enlighten..

You say you have read through the entire thread. If that is true, you should realize that these officers did a bit more than hurt feelings. Or maybe our definitions of hurt feeling differ.. let's see...

Do you feel being unlawfully arrested counts as a violation of your civil rights, or is that just hurt feelings?

Do you feel that being illegally threatened with arrest unless you comply with an unlawful order is a violation of your civil rights or just hurt feelings?

Do you believe being forced to stand outside in the rain, against your will, while being forced to submit to illegal searches under threat of arrest, unable to go back to your family, who is watching all this occur, is a violation of your civil rights, or just hurt feelings?

Do you believe having your property stolen, and given to someone else, while you are forced to watch, and are helpless to do anything about it, is a violation of your civil rights, or just hurt feelings?

Do you say that having your property stolen and kept for weeks, before it is given back without so much as a "sorry sir", is just hurt feelings, or is it a violation of your civil rights?

Do you espouse that traumatizing children and spouses, by making them watch their parents and spouses be subjected to verbal and physical abuse, unlawful actions, and treated like criminals, is just simply hurt feelings, or is it a violation of your civil rights?

These things were perpetrated against law abiding citizens by public servants who admit they knew the law.

If you would not feel comfortable placing a full page ad in your local paper, inviting every LEO in your area to come to your house or follow you around, and search you and your property, whenever they felt like it, seizing whatever they felt like, then why is it a case of hurt feelings when it happens to some other law abiding citizens?

What happened at the OCB was not someone getting their feelings hurt, it was an outrageous abuse of authority by public servants, who knew their actions to be illegal while they were committing those acts........

OK, maybe I did jump on this post after all......