Pa. Patriot ARRESTED at the OC dinner @ The Old Country Buffet in Dickson City 5/9

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by TonyF

Wait a minute.

I don't understand how some of you find it surprising that there may be consequences to "activism".

I'm not suggesting that the Dickson 12 were looking for a confrontation that evening but let's be honest, we all knew very well prior to that incident it's a given that LE who don't know OC is legal may hassle OC'ers. Thus being "out there" openly carrying brings with it a degree of vulnerability in that regard.

It's fine to be outraged at the behavior of the Dickson P.D. but based on this example, bear in mind that the next time any of you folks OC there could be a repeat of this incident. And if you're family is present they may be witness to and / or exposed to some traumatic events. IOW, someone could actually get arrested or if it escalates, it wouldn't surprise me if LE applied physical force to effect an arrest.

The point is, if you're going to be an activist, it goes with the turf. It's not fair and it isn't right, but it's part of the price we pay for social change. I do support your efforts but changing the social landscape with regard to openly carried firearms is a big part of what some of you OC advocates are all about. Don't be surprised if some of you occasionally get a "bloody nose".

In the spirit of Pa Patriot, if I get a "bloody nose", the ones who bloodied it , will be getting atleast 10 X worse!!!!!!

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Preposterous.

Have you spent much time in a courtroom? I haven't but the few times I have it wasn't pretty for either side. Lots of unexpected stuff can come to the forefront in a legal proceeding.

What other means of redress does one have when life, liberty, or property is infringed upon - especially by government violating the constitution?

Through the courts of course. But Civil court is the last "blood sport" permitted in this country. Dickson City may fold and settle but if they don't, and it goes to trial, it means allot of sacrifices for the plaintiffs. Missing work to testify, depositions, increased legal fees, etc., etc.

Sometimes the result of these cases is a pyric victory.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by TonyF

Wait a minute.

I don't understand how some of you find it surprising that there may be consequences to "activism".
...
I do support your efforts but changing the social landscape with regard to openly carried firearms is a big part of what some of you OC advocates are all about. Don't be surprised if some of you occasionally get a "bloody nose".

You replied to headcase, and I'm not going to speak for him, but these latest replies were in response to someone marginalizing what happened.
I'm full aware the potential consequences of OC. The discussion of late revolves around someone saying we were not damaged.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by fingers80002

In the spirit of Pa Patriot, if I get a "bloody nose", the ones who bloodied it , will be getting atleast 10 X worse!!!!!!

You're absolutely certain of that? Based on what?

I'm sorry but "there's the way it is and the way it oughta be". It's not a "justice" system, it's a "legal" system.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

You replied to headcase, and I'm not going to speak for him, but these latest replies were in response to someone marginalizing what happened.

I'm full aware the potential consequences of OC. The discussion of late revolves around someone saying we were not damaged.

I understand that.

It's some of the other "in their face" replies that I was addressing. The reply from headcase presented me with an opportunity to make the point.

ETA: In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have quoted headcase. But it was the fact he was considering that had he been there, his family would have witnessed the event.

[pahandgunner]

Originally Posted by DaveM55

I'm equally appalled at the blood lust and mob mentality of a minority few here. This atmosphere is not helping anyone.

That's a little bit of an exageration don't ya think. Don't feel to sorry for those officers. Some of them knowingly broke many laws that night. Worst case senario: they lose their jobs and get to look for another one.
Their insurance will pay for any legal judgements against them, and they have to do no jail time or have a criminal record. That would be a pretty sweet deal for the average joe.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by TonyF

I understand that.

It's some of the other "in their face" replies that I was addressing. The reply from headcase presented me with an opportunity to make the point.

Well then I guess while I understand your point but I do not understand the purpose... It's kind of like saying that a soldier suffering from PTS syndrome should have expected it.. after all, he knew what he was getting into.

I'd say most OC'ers are full aware of the small risk of having a bad LEO encounter, after all, that's one of the main reasons people are/were reluctant to OC in the first place.

IMO, they are still entitled to be outraged if they are abused. Expectation is not a disqualifier.

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by TonyF

You're absolutely certain of that? Based on what?

I'm sorry but "there's the way it is and the way it oughta be". It's not a "justice" system, it's a "legal" system.

The way I see it, it is an "injustice system", and an " illegal system".
If you bloody my nose, I will do 10X worse to you!

Wanna come over and try?

[Statkowski]

Their insurance will pay for any legal judgements against them,

Dickson City Borough's liability insurance has a $25,000 deductible due to previous legal judgments

and they have to do no jail time or have a criminal record.

That's only because Private Criminal Complaints have not been filed, yet.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Well then I guess while I understand your point but I do not understand the purpose... It's kind of like saying that a soldier suffering from PTS syndrome should have expected it.. after all, he knew what he was getting into.

I have to disagree with this particular analogy because soldiers are ordered to deploy and don't have a choice but I do understand your point.

I'd say most OC'ers are full aware of the small risk of having a bad LEO encounter, after all, that's one of the main reasons people are/were reluctant to OC in the first place.

IMO, they are still entitled to be outraged if they are abused. Expectation is not a disqualifier.

Look, I don't disagree that outrage is justified. But there used to be an officer on the department in my town years ago who was a class A, dyed in the wool rambo type asshole. I firmly believe there are still some like that on the job. The odds favor it. Encountering one of these types who "knows the law" will not end amicably or peacefully no matter how polite we are.