Pa. Patriot ARRESTED at the OC dinner @ The Old Country Buffet in Dickson City 5/9

[God's Country]

Perhaps this is the wrong time for me to chime in on this thread since I have been virtually awol since the first post. Not due to a lack of interest, but rather time.
With that said what the hell.


It would appear that personal feeling was the driving force behind the actions of law enforcement that evening, and not the reality of the situation. Is it really necessary to detain a table of diners with their family and children simply because of a prejudice?
We’re all prejudice towards something. Sometimes we rise above it. Sometimes we fall prey to those feelings. We all must be held accountable for our actions especially when they may be shameful. It makes us better people. A simple apology in this case may have gone a long way, but instead it just the same old “no comment” bs. Mistakes were made shit happens. At the end of the day we are all just mortals that are fallible. The situation all involved now face is a sad commentary of the relationship between the citizen and the government that swears to protect it. Trampling anyone’s rights because of the perceived greater good is never an excuse. It happens and sometimes unavoidable in a frantic situation, but this was neither unavoidable, nor frantic. I cannot claim ignorance of the law as an excuse. Those sworn to uphold it should be held to at least that same standard. From my view this suit is a result of a governing body refusing to admit a mistake was made because in today’s world admitting a mistake is having take personnel responsibility. A virtue that has been lost along with humility, decency, and a basic respect for humanity. Perhaps those that feel that way shouldn’t carry guns professionally or govern.

[gf45acp]

I am beginning to believe that a little more "blood lust" is what people need with the current state of the government and it's enforcers.

[headcase]

I am going to try to keep this brief and focused..

I am so hopping mad after reading both Rich's reply, and Dave's reply to that. When I wrote that those present that night had their rights violated, in front of their families, it may have been glossed over, but the scarring Rich's son is suffering from as a result, is just as important a reason to make a highly visible example of these officers as the actual rights violations. It incenses me, not only the thought of Rich's poor son, but that it could just as easily be mine. My wife, my son, and myself, would have been there except for a rush at her job. What about the other children there? What about children who witness other officer abuses of their parents or loved ones? You may call me a psycho, but I would rather see a police officer killed, in the line of duty, and be able to explain to my son that he gave his life in a noble cause, than to see one walk away safely, after violating someone's rights in front of their kids.

Dave said he put me on his ignore list, so I won't go off on his post, but it disgusted me.

Rich, I....can't articulate my sorrow and outrage that your family has to deal with this, but I am sure you know how I feel.

[jahwarrior72]

Originally Posted by DaveM55

You missed a couple bites of food and you want to ruin the lives and careers of someone else? Sounds a little JBTish to me. Do you think destroying these peoples lives will be a positive thing?

Yes it's your right to proceed with the case, but in my opinion you're no better than the cops who mistreated you.

wrong. the people who went way out of their way to meet up that night are better than the DCPD. we didn't set out to traumatize anyone, or cause a scene, or make some kind of statement, and i'm getting a little f*cking tired of saying so.

it' so very nice of you to trivialize the event, which you didn't even attend. it was more than missing a few bites of food; ask the Gorilla's son, who can't look at cop without getting antsy; ask Taurusguy's young daughter, who says the police scare her; hell, ask my oldest daughter, the one with severe autism, who can't even see a cop, or the Old Country Buffet, without screaming, biting her wrists, and vomiting.

i'm sorry, you're right; we're no better than the assholes from the DCPD. after all, i'm sure they're going through similar problems when they go out with their families.

the next time you want to trivialize someone else's experience, you might want to make sure you were actually there, instead of sitting behind a keyboard, spouting nonsense, contributing nothing, and making yourself look like an asshole.


P.S.

if the lives of those so called "cops" are ruined because of any legal action, i'm okay with it. it's better than they'd do to us, and any punishment they get will be better than they deserve.

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by DaveM55

You missed a couple bites of food and you want to ruin the lives and careers of someone else? Sounds a little JBTish to me. Do you think destroying these peoples lives will be a positive thing?

Yes it's your right to proceed with the case, but in my opinion you're no better than the cops who mistreated you.

How about the OC'ers come and bust down your door, and search your house without a warrant, you going to say well OK , they thought I did something wrong?

You seem to think that would be OK?

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by PeteG

People with lots of experience, and the scars to prove it, are virtually unanimous in their opinion that even a good law suit is a bad thing to have.

Preposterous. What other means of redress does one have when life, liberty, or property is infringed upon - especially by government violating the constitution?

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Preposterous. What other means of redress does one have when life, liberty, or property is infringed upon - especially by government violating the constitution?

According to the rules, we can't post what we would do!!!!!!!!!

[P-11 shooter]

Sorry Dave, the cops screwed up on this one. I know what you mean. You don't want to see anyone suffer. But part of having a job is being accountable for what you do. Some jobs carry more weight than others. As said many, many, times ignorance of the law is no excuse. I've been told this by police officers who honestly believe it's my responsibility to sit down with a copy of the crimes code and learn EVERY low on the books. However, those who's job it is to uphold the laws AS THEY ARE WRITTEN can claim ignorance.



I don't care what you do for your 9-5, but DO YOUR F**KING JOB!
And take responsoblity for your actions.

[JCWohlschlag]

Originally Posted by DaveM55

You missed a couple bites of food and you want to ruin the lives and careers of someone else? Sounds a little JBTish to me. Do you think destroying these peoples lives will be a positive thing?

Yes it's your right to proceed with the case, but in my opinion you're no better than the cops who mistreated you.

In addition to everything that has been posted, think about this. It is these kinds of police officers, the ones who either do not know or do not care about correct criminal procedure, that end up getting evidence thrown out of court and getting people who do commit crimes acquitted. Ruining their lives or careers doesn’t seem such a harsh punishment when you consider that they obviously don’t know how to conduct their job properly in the first place. If they are too lazy or ignorant to learn how to properly put the bad guys in jail, then they are no good as police officers and, quite frankly, should find another job.

All of this is in addition to any consideration about the mistreatment of an innocent citizen’s civil rights or missing a few bites of food.

So, does the community have a right to be disgusted at the lack of ability of some police officers to do their job properly? Sure, because these infractions of proper procedure end up keeping criminals on the street, which decreases the safety of the community. Lives and careers ruined?… That depends on how mad that makes you. To me, a lawsuit and a formal reprimand sound completely deserved.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by headcase

I am going to try to keep this brief and focused..

I am so hopping mad after reading both Rich's reply, and Dave's reply to that. When I wrote that those present that night had their rights violated, in front of their families, it may have been glossed over, but the scarring Rich's son is suffering from as a result, is just as important a reason to make a highly visible example of these officers as the actual rights violations. It incenses me, not only the thought of Rich's poor son, but that it could just as easily be mine. My wife, my son, and myself, would have been there except for a rush at her job. What about the other children there? What about children who witness other officer abuses of their parents or loved ones? You may call me a psycho, but I would rather see a police officer killed, in the line of duty, and be able to explain to my son that he gave his life in a noble cause, than to see one walk away safely, after violating someone's rights in front of their kids.

Dave said he put me on his ignore list, so I won't go off on his post, but it disgusted me.

Rich, I....can't articulate my sorrow and outrage that your family has to deal with this, but I am sure you know how I feel.

Wait a minute.

I don't understand how some of you find it surprising that there may be consequences to "activism".

I'm not suggesting that the Dickson 12 were looking for a confrontation that evening but let's be honest, we all knew very well prior to that incident it's a given that LE who don't know OC is legal may hassle OC'ers. Thus being "out there" openly carrying brings with it a degree of vulnerability in that regard.

It's fine to be outraged at the behavior of the Dickson P.D. but based on this example, bear in mind that the next time any of you folks OC there could be a repeat of this incident. And if you're family is present they may be witness to and / or exposed to some traumatic events. IOW, someone could actually get arrested or if it escalates, it wouldn't surprise me if LE applied physical force to effect an arrest.

The point is, if you're going to be an activist, it goes with the turf. It's not fair and it isn't right, but it's part of the price we pay for social change. I do support your efforts but changing the social landscape with regard to openly carried firearms is a big part of what some of you OC advocates are all about. Don't be surprised if some of you occasionally get a "bloody nose".