Pa. Patriot ARRESTED at the OC dinner @ The Old Country Buffet in Dickson City 5/9

[PeteG]

Originally Posted by DaveM55

Sounds more like they are working within the system to prepare thier case...remember innocent until proven guilty?

What's with all the gloating over this?

Too many posts here that seem to enjoy this. This situation is not good for either party and I have empathy for ALL involved.

I have the same impression. Lots of people who have never been inside a courtroom, and are therefore unfamiliar with the stress, aggravation, tedium, economic costs and, most important, the EVER-PRESENT POSSIBILITY OF AN ADVERSE RESULT inherent in any law suit, are howling like this is the Steelers against the Browns. It is childish, and in some instances downright obnoxious.

People with lots of experience, and the scars to prove it, are viturally uninimous in thier opinion that even a good law suit is a bad thing to have.

The police made a number of mistakes, including, but by no means limited to, detaining people for open carry. The people who were affected have decided to redress the situation with a law suit. That's thier option, and although it was not the only choice it is a legitimate and respectable choice. I precidt they will substantially prevail on the merits of their claims. I also think they will probably spend more than they will recover, but that will nevertheless be worth it to them.

It is also more than a theoretical possibility they will lose. It is very, very difficult to recover against police officers in a jury trial under civil rights or common law tort theories of recovery.

In the meantime, all the ranting from the peanut gallery about police losing their jobs and the Township going broke and so forth is appearing in the public media, and detracting from the dignity of what the plaintiffs are trying to do. It certainly is not helping anything.

So, for you guys who have never been willing to so much as inconvenience yourself, let alone take on a real fight ("From around my dead, cold hands - asterisk - so long as I don't have to spend any money, miss any work or risk getting on any lists"), and are now enjoying some kind of vicarious power trip, here's an idea: STFU. You are making fools of yourselves.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by PeteG

I have the same impression. Lots of people who have never been inside a courtroom, and are therefore unfamiliar with the stress, aggravation, tedium, economic costs and, most important, the EVER-PRESENT POSSIBILITY OF AN ADVERSE RESULT inherent in any law suit, are howling like this is the Steelers against the Browns. It is childish, and in some instances downright obnoxious.

People with lots of experience, and the scars to prove it, are viturally uninimous in thier opinion that even a good law suit is a bad thing to have.

The police made a number of mistakes, including, but by no means limited to, detaining people for open carry. The people who were affected have decided to redress the situation with a law suit. That's thier option, and although it was not the only choice it is a legitimate and respectable choice. I precidt they will substantially prevail on the merits of their claims. I also think they will probably spend more than they will recover, but that will nevertheless be worth it to them.

It is also more than a theoretical possibility they will lose. It is very, very difficult to recover against police officers in a jury trial under civil rights or common law tort theories of recovery.

In the meantime, all the ranting from the peanut gallery about police losing their jobs and the Township going broke and so forth is appearing in the public media, and detracting from the dignity of what the plaintiffs are trying to do. It certainly is not helping anything.

So, for you guys who have never been willing to so much as inconvenience yourself, let alone take on a real fight ("From around my dead, cold hands - asterisk - so long as I don't have to spend any money, miss any work or risk getting on any lists"), and are now enjoying some kind of vicarious power trip, here's an idea: STFU. You are making fools of yourselves.

Since when are lawsuits a bad choice? It's the American way! Your choice to cave-in when faced with oppression is silly.

BTW, these lawsuits will never go to trial, and the City will settle and pay and probably agree to an injunction against doing this crap in the future, and I doubt any of the Plaintiffs are on the hook for attoreys' fees - the police misconduct was so egregious that the case was ripe for a contingency arrangement.

[PeteG]

Originally Posted by Mike

Since when are lawsuits a bad choice? It's the American way! Your choice to cave-in when faced with oppression is silly.

BTW, these lawsuits will never go to trial, and the City will settle and pay and probably agree to an injunction against doing this crap in the future, and I doubt any of the Plaintiffs are on the hook for attoreys' fees - the police misconduct was so egregious that the case was ripe for a contingency arrangement.

I did not say it was a bad choice. I said "legitimate and respectable." How do you get "bad" from that?

As for the outcome, time will tell.

None of which has anything to do with the point of my post.

Edited to add:

I missed the part about choosing to cave in and being silly when I originally responded. You obviously know nothing about me. I have been called a lot of things, but not silly. I'm as serious as a heart attack.

I have, for example, represented dozens of people in gun rights cases (some of which were without fee, and all of which were at a reduced fee). I have personally been deliberately arrested TWICE in the past four years in order to resist unconstitutional restrictions on the possession or transportation of firearms (in both cases I was vindicated). I am, at present, suing the City of Pittsburgh for thier illegal use of the zoning code to force FFL's out of the City. And those are just the gun-related issues with respect to which I have put my time, my money and my a** on the line.

And you?

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by PeteG

In the meantime, all the ranting from the peanut gallery about police losing their jobs and the Township going broke and so forth is appearing in the public media, and detracting from the dignity of what the plaintiffs are trying to do. It certainly is not helping anything.

i understand what you are saying. and i agree with you (and dave). some of the "gloating" is very off-putting to say the least.

however, in those people's defense, i have to say i do sort of understand where they are coming from.

we are supposed to live in a society where the government is answerable to the people and where we have certain rights which are not to be violated by the government.

in reality, though...and you actually summed it up very nicely...if a government agent (such as a police officer) crosses the line and violates your rights, there is often little, if anything, you can do about it.

people who do not have the money or time to fight a long, drawn-out battle (possibly with little chance of actually having much effect even if they win) just kinda have to roll over and accept their rights being violated.

that is not the way it should be and, for some people, the fact that it is that way is extremely frustrating.

thus, when someone does actually step up to fight such rights violations, that frustration can come through in the expressions of support for that person. i don't think it's so much about a vicarious power trip as it is about "finally, someone is standing up for what is right...perhaps justice will finally be done in at least this one case".

i'm not making excuses for immature comments or people going overboard with it, but i do think that helps to explain it a bit.

just my 2 cents.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

we are supposed to live in a society where the government is answerable to the people and where we have certain rights which are not to be violated by the government.

This type of egregious behavior on the part of the .gov is not a recent development. It's been going on since time immemorial.

Recall Andrew Jackson's forced removal of indigenous tribes, particularly the Cherokee's "Trail of Tears". And how did Jackson respond to the SCOTUS ruling in 1831 that it was illegal? By proclaiming that "[Justice] John Marshall has made his decision; let him enforce it now if he can".

And this from a President who would be regarded as a hero by contemporary conservatives given his opposition to a central banking system.

It's the same age old problems of ego, unethical practices and ulterior (selfish) motives. The only thing that changes over the years are the tyrants names and faces.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by DaveM55

You missed a couple bites of food and you want to ruin the lives and careers of someone else? Sounds a little JBTish to me. Do you think destroying these peoples lives will be a positive thing?

Yes it's your right to proceed with the case, but in my opinion you're no better than the cops who mistreated you.

Not sure how I missed this little gem.

I couldn't help but laugh at first. Funny thing is that, technically, I did not get to eat but a literal couple bites of my dinner I paid for... For me it's not a big deal. Not the first meal I've missed a paid for meal due to something coming up or another priority... Nope, the problem was not that I didn't get to eat my meal. It was a LOT bigger than that.

The real problem is that in the above quoted post you presume to know what we went through. You then intentionally marginalize what we went through.

What a down right crappy thing to do

No Dave, it was definitely not just a few bites of food.

In reality we were abused by out of control public servants.
We were removed from our friends and families for nothing
We were talked down to.
We were insulted.
We were publicly detained and searched.
We were made a negative and public spectacle of due to the ignorance of some public servants.
We were forced to then decide to sit back and ignore the abuse and thereby be partially responsible for any further abuses by this police department or go through the toils of trying to hold these "officers" accountable for their actions. Public abuse, time, and money to name a few.

I was physically ill for the first three days due to lack of sleep.

And you dare marginalize the abuse of citizens by trusted citizen peace officers. I'm very disturbed by that.

Let me tell you something else, Dave. My six year old son has been in fear of the police ever since. Despite several conversations explaining the problem and that the police are not the bad guys. He has had several melt downs upon seeing police while out and about since 5/9... Just Monday night, I took him to get ice cream, for a promised reward. As we sat at the picnic table outside the ice cream stand, two TWP police cars rounded the corner. The TWP building is across the street from the ice cream stand. My boy pointed and yelled "police".
I said that's OK, they're just going to their office. There he sat, unable to hold in the tears, despite my assurance that the police were not coming to arrest daddy. Unable to finish his ice cream. What should have been a happy reward turned into a very shitty outing.

So you go ahead and marginalize the abuses of your fellow officers. I really don't think I expect any different from you, seriously, I don't.

I'm damn well going to "proceed with the case", because I know it makes me better than them. Regardless what that makes me to be in your biased eyes.

[Brown-Bear]

WOW. This thread is still white hot I see. I do agree that the flouting ny those that were not there is getting seriously old. Many of which have never so much as ben to an OC dinner, or rally.

As far as why ruin the cops lives, I highly doubt that any LEO's lives/ carreers will be ruined over this incident.

Rich, On a personal note. I am very saddened to here about your little boy. It truly is a crying shme that he is now fearful of those put in place to protect him. I don't know if ot would be too much, bt maybe you could take him to the station andlet him take a tour, it might help. Just sad, sad. I hope it all works out and your family is in my prayers.

Dave

[Lysander]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Not sure how I missed this little gem.

I couldn't help but laugh at first. Funny thing is that, technically, I did not get to eat but a literal couple bites of my dinner I paid for... For me it's not a big deal. Not the first meal I've missed a paid for meal due to something coming up or another priority... Nope, the problem was not that I didn't get to eat my meal. It was a LOT bigger than that.

The real problem is that in the above quoted post you presume to know what we went through. You then intentionally marginalize what we went through.

What a down right crappy thing to do

No Dave, it was definitely not just a few bites of food.

In reality we were abused by out of control public servants.
We were removed from our friends and families for nothing
We were talked down to.
We were insulted.
We were publicly detained and searched.
We were made a negative and public spectacle of due to the ignorance of some public servants.
We were forced to then decide to sit back and ignore the abuse and thereby be partially responsible for any further abuses by this police department or go through the toils of trying to hold these "officers" accountable for their actions. Public abuse, time, and money to name a few.

I was physically ill for the first three days due to lack of sleep.

And you dare marginalize the abuse of citizens by trusted citizen peace officers. I'm very disturbed by that.

Let me tell you something else, Dave. My six year old son has been in fear of the police ever since. Despite several conversations explaining the problem and that the police are not the bad guys. He has had several melt downs upon seeing police while out and about since 5/9... Just Monday night, I took him to get ice cream, for a promised reward. As we sat at the picnic table outside the ice cream stand, two TWP police cars rounded the corner. The TWP building is across the street from the ice cream stand. My boy pointed and yelled "police".
I said that's OK, they're just going to their office. There he sat, unable to hold in the tears, despite my assurance that the police were not coming to arrest daddy. Unable to finish his ice cream. What should have been a happy reward turned into a very shitty outing.

So you go ahead and marginalize the abuses of your fellow officers. I really don't think I expect any different from you, seriously, I don't.

I'm damn well going to "proceed with the case", because I know it makes me better than them. Regardless what that makes me to be in your biased eyes.

If the forum software didn't demand "spreading the love" this is worth several hours of repeatedly adding rep points.

[Agent Smith]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Not sure how I missed this little gem.

I couldn't help but laugh at first. Funny thing is that, technically, I did not get to eat but a literal couple bites of my dinner I paid for... For me it's not a big deal. Not the first meal I've missed a paid for meal due to something coming up or another priority... Nope, the problem was not that I didn't get to eat my meal. It was a LOT bigger than that.

The real problem is that in the above quoted post you presume to know what we went through. You then intentionally marginalize what we went through.

What a down right crappy thing to do

No Dave, it was definitely not just a few bites of food.

In reality we were abused by out of control public servants.
We were removed from our friends and families for nothing
We were talked down to.
We were insulted.
We were publicly detained and searched.
We were made a negative and public spectacle of due to the ignorance of some public servants.
We were forced to then decide to sit back and ignore the abuse and thereby be partially responsible for any further abuses by this police department or go through the toils of trying to hold these "officers" accountable for their actions. Public abuse, time, and money to name a few.

I was physically ill for the first three days due to lack of sleep.

And you dare marginalize the abuse of citizens by trusted citizen peace officers. I'm very disturbed by that.

Let me tell you something else, Dave. My six year old son has been in fear of the police ever since. Despite several conversations explaining the problem and that the police are not the bad guys. He has had several melt downs upon seeing police while out and about since 5/9... Just Monday night, I took him to get ice cream, for a promised reward. As we sat at the picnic table outside the ice cream stand, two TWP police cars rounded the corner. The TWP building is across the street from the ice cream stand. My boy pointed and yelled "police".
I said that's OK, they're just going to their office. There he sat, unable to hold in the tears, despite my assurance that the police were not coming to arrest daddy. Unable to finish his ice cream. What should have been a happy reward turned into a very shitty outing.

So you go ahead and marginalize the abuses of your fellow officers. I really don't think I expect any different from you, seriously, I don't.

I'm damn well going to "proceed with the case", because I know it makes me better than them. Regardless what that makes me to be in your biased eyes.

That deserves e-Rep right there.

I find it ridiculous that there's people that think these officers should be let off the hook with no repercussions. Not only that, but judging by Dave's comment, it seems he would also prefer they get a commendation for their actions.

[DaveM55]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Not sure how I missed this little gem.

I couldn't help but laugh at first. Funny thing is that, technically, I did not get to eat but a literal couple bites of my dinner I paid for... For me it's not a big deal. Not the first meal I've missed a paid for meal due to something coming up or another priority... Nope, the problem was not that I didn't get to eat my meal. It was a LOT bigger than that.

The real problem is that in the above quoted post you presume to know what we went through. You then intentionally marginalize what we went through.

What a down right crappy thing to do

No Dave, it was definitely not just a few bites of food.

In reality we were abused by out of control public servants.
We were removed from our friends and families for nothing
We were talked down to.
We were insulted.
We were publicly detained and searched.
We were made a negative and public spectacle of due to the ignorance of some public servants.
We were forced to then decide to sit back and ignore the abuse and thereby be partially responsible for any further abuses by this police department or go through the toils of trying to hold these "officers" accountable for their actions. Public abuse, time, and money to name a few.

I was physically ill for the first three days due to lack of sleep.

And you dare marginalize the abuse of citizens by trusted citizen peace officers. I'm very disturbed by that.

Let me tell you something else, Dave. My six year old son has been in fear of the police ever since. Despite several conversations explaining the problem and that the police are not the bad guys. He has had several melt downs upon seeing police while out and about since 5/9... Just Monday night, I took him to get ice cream, for a promised reward. As we sat at the picnic table outside the ice cream stand, two TWP police cars rounded the corner. The TWP building is across the street from the ice cream stand. My boy pointed and yelled "police".
I said that's OK, they're just going to their office. There he sat, unable to hold in the tears, despite my assurance that the police were not coming to arrest daddy. Unable to finish his ice cream. What should have been a happy reward turned into a very shitty outing.

So you go ahead and marginalize the abuses of your fellow officers. I really don't think I expect any different from you, seriously, I don't.

I'm damn well going to "proceed with the case", because I know it makes me better than them. Regardless what that makes me to be in your biased eyes.

Hey Rich the "you" addressed in that quote was not directed at you or your family. Sorry if you took that personally, you shouldn't have. Sorry to hear your son is suffering.

The point of my post is that some people here are ecstatic with the level of vigilantism in this post. Some here would like nothing more to grab a rope and hang the police. Why haven't you or any other moderator addressed those posts if justice is such a high priority?

I'm sorry anyone has to suffer because of the events of that evening and I make no apology for the unjust actions of the DC police.

I'm equally appalled at the blood lust and mob mentality of a minority few here. This atmosphere is not helping anyone.