Pa. Patriot ARRESTED at the OC dinner @ The Old Country Buffet in Dickson City 5/9

[SigForLife]

Originally Posted by lprgcRob

IANAL.
Would the standard necessarily be probable cause, or might it be reasonable suspicion (the later comprising a much lower standard)?

Under the US Constitution, you only need reasonable suspicion to stop and question someone. Police may ask a person questions without any suspicion.

[gf45acp]

I do not believe that either existed in this case. As Harry Callahan's boss told him "Clairvoyance don't cut it".

[gf45acp]

BTW the US constitution never mentions "reasonable suspicion". That is case law.

[FromMyColdDeadHands]

Originally Posted by SigForLife

Under the US Constitution, you only need reasonable suspicion to stop and question someone. Police may ask a person questions without any suspicion.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I must have missed the "Reasonable Articulable Suspicion" - That wonderful idea came from JUDGES who were NOT ruling in accordance to the United States Constitution.

[lprgcFrank]

There is a Times Tribune article today criticizing open carry - can't find a dedicated thread to it so here is the link

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site...d=422126&rfi=6


Here is the comment i posted.

As someone who open carries, I strongly disagree with your 'wild west' assertions. The vast majority of people either do not notice or do not care. I've had dozens of encounters with law enforcement officers and have always been treated professionally and respectfully - never like the abhorrent actions of the Dickinson PD. I use open carry as an opportunity to educate people by demonstrating that firearms are not the issue - criminal behavior is. Reasonable people can go about their business with an openly carried firearm. Openly carrying a firearm is a statement that I am responsible for my life and liberty. Sentiments that our great state and country were founded on.

[stevieb92]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

I enlightened a Luzerne County Deputy Sheriff at work today. He works for them full-time and works part-time for us (our borough) as a fire fighter.

We go to talking about the OCB incident and he thought, as many of them do, that OC was illegal. I explained several things to him, and gave him a copy of Commonwealth v. Hawkins.

He was totally acceptable to the information I gave him. He looked up the UFA on line and I showed him where a LTC allows the person to carry concealed, or in a vehicle. It has nothing to do with OC.

His comment was basically, "man......they don't teach any of this in the academy".

So, my good deed for the day was to enlighten another person about some of the gun laws (not just OC) in PA.

BRAVO!!! One more down... Ummm... many to go?

[J8300]

I’m no lawyer (sorry, Mom), but as I read the state statute, I don’t see anything that expressly affords the right to “open carry,” as it is called by advocates. Nor do I see anything in the statute that expressly prohibits it. The law seems to address concealed weapons only. If true, aren’t we really talking about a loophole, as opposed to a legal right? The result may be the same, but it’s a distinction, nonetheless.

This guy is an imbecile. Does he honestly think everything you CAN do has to be spelled out by law? Wheres the law allowing this retard to even be a "journalist"?

Heres the comment I left at the paper:

"I’m no lawyer (sorry, Mom), but as I read the state statute, I don’t see anything that expressly affords the right to “open carry,” as it is called by advocates. Nor do I see anything in the statute that expressly prohibits it. The law seems to address concealed weapons only. If true, aren’t we really talking about a loophole, as opposed to a legal right? The result may be the same, but it’s a dstanistinction, nonetheless."

This guy is an imbecile. Does he honestly think everything you CAN do has to be spelled out by law? Wheres the law allowing this retard to even be a "journalist"?

You need to study up on the Milgram Experiment Chris, Maybe once you know you're just a sheep you can get help.

"MEMO TO RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS: I firmly believe in the Second Amendment. I come from a long line of hunters and gun owners. I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon in Pennsylvania, but I have never felt naked without one in a family restaurant. If you’re sick and tired of yahoos making all gun owners look like idiots, this seems like a golden opportunity to stand up and sa y so."

I'm standing up to say you are one gun owner that makes the rest of us look like idiots. I wonder how you would like open carry of a pen and paper made illegal. Your comment about guns and various other weapons making a room inherently more dangerous is as asinine as your whole stance on this issue. There are eating utensils scattered all over the restaurant. Not once has a steak knife jumped up on its own and shown anyone how dangerous it is. A sharpened pencil or an ordinary pen can kill someone. Lets take yours away. We should probably license belts also, so no one accidentally hangs themselves.

How can you have a LTCF then announce youd get up and leave over open carry because the room just suddenly got more dangerous? I wonder how many people think the same of your concealed carry? If the mere presence of a gun makes a room inherently more dangerous doesnt the same hold true for your concealed pistol? Make up your low IQ'd mind sissy.

[kevinmch]

I read through as many pages as I could stand...not sure if anyone posted this yet. DC Police blotter has the incident updated on their website....sorry again if this has been posted before.

05/09/08 6:29pm To the Old Country Buffet on Commerce Blvd on a complaint of several males carrying handguns, investigation continuing.

http://www.dicksoncityborough.org/in...=13&parentId=0

Should have said "several males and one gorilla carrying handguns" lol

[BerettaRogue]

Well guys, I've read all 155 pages. It took me a while, shall we say. Yet it was worth it. This incident is really what inspired me to take an interest in gun rights. In this thread alone I more than doubled what I knew about my rights and the laws.

I just got my CPL class certification today, and will be putting it into the works soon, but having read this, I feel that I would like to try open carry. I know it's going to be rather dangerous for me, as I live in Ann Arbor, MI, and we all know how gun-friendly they are there. However, as I scoured the internet, and this thread, I learned that I am well within my rights to do so, and would like to be part of the stand that the Dickson City Dozen are making. Much like the experience Mike had with the police chief, I found that neither the Lt. at the station, nor the city attorney knew anything about open carry laws, so I may well be in for a trip.

I'll stick around here for a while, I want to see how all this turns out.

[P-11 shooter]

Good to have you and tread lightly.


Maybe there is a michigan gun rights flier you could print out from somewhere.