My question is what constituted an open carry ?

[larrymeyer]

My question is what constituted an open carry ? As on the police forum I found this

Also, in MN, a holster is considered concealment, so by definition, there isn't open carry... even though there is.--this is really just a random tidbit of info.

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

The post looks empty - is there supposed to be more?

[larrymeyer]

No. Nothing missing
Just what in your mind constituted an open carry and does anyone know how PA defines it ?
As what I read into the statement "Also, in MN, a holster is considered concealment, so by definition, there isn't open carry... even though there is.--this is really just a random tidbit of info." if your wearing a gun on your hip and it's in a holster it's concealed. I would also ASSUME if it's in your waist band it's concealed

[Rule10b5]

No specific definition in Pa., in either case law or statute. The following is nothing more than my musing on the subject:

If the firearm is in a holster, and you aren't in a car, and it isn't covered by a shirt (or other garment), I'm comfortable taking the position that you're open carrying, regardless of whether you're carrying OWB or IWB.

If you're in a car with a firearm, you're carrying concealed unless the firearm is unloaded and in a separate area of the car (trunk) or locked container, if you have not truck.

If the firearm is in a holster (or not) and covered by a shirt, or in a pants pocket, you're carrying concealed. Note, however, if the outline of the firearm is visible, you're still carrying concealed. There is no such thing as illegal "printing" in Pa., if you have a LTCF, given that open carry is legal.

[Rule10b5]

Originally Posted by larrymeyer

I would also ASSUME if it's in your waist band it's concealed

Nope, so called "Mexican" carry would seem legal to me, given that enough of the firearm is still being carried "openly" to be seen and obvious as a firearm. I'm not talking about just the tip of the grip being visible -- I'm talking about a good 30-50% of the firearm sticking out of your waistband.

But "Mexican" carry is kind of asinine, anyway, so why do it?

[God's Country]

Originally Posted by larrymeyer

My question is what constituted an open carry ? As on the police forum I found this

Also, in MN, a holster is considered concealment, so by definition, there isn't open carry... even though there is.--this is really just a random tidbit of info.

What is MN? Minnesota?

[knight0334]

"Open Carry" has been described by coded and case law in other states to mean - "Recognizable as a firearm by a common man and easily seen." in or abouts similar wording.

Example: it must look like a gun(whether holstered or not), and openly displayed. Of all the places that I can think of, all that is needed is the grip of the gun to be exposed to make it look like a firearm for OC purposes. It must look like you have holstered firearm or have the grip of such sticking out of your waistband, belt, pocket, etc..


Even though PA's caselaws loosely touch(Hawkins) the definition of "open carry", a court could easily adopt the coded or common meaning used by other states if they didn't want to debate it out - which many have done over the years.

[Pa. Patriot]

As mentioned, no definition in PA code.

So, with that we look at the definition of "concealed".
No definition for that either in the code.
Common definition if concealed is hidden from plain view.

So if it doesn't meet that definition, than it is not concealed.

If a casual observer can recognize it as a gun, it would not meet the definition of concealed, therefore it is open.

[Rule10b5]

Originally Posted by knight0334

"Open Carry" has been described by coded and case law in other states to mean - "Recognizable as a firearm by a common man and easily seen." in or abouts similar wording.

Example: it must look like a gun(whether holstered or not), and openly displayed. Of all the places that I can think of, all that is needed is the grip of the gun to be exposed to make it look like a firearm for OC purposes and for the grip to not be covered. It must look like you have holstered firearm or have the grip of such sticking out of your waistband, belt, pocket, etc..


Even though PA's caselaws loosely touch(Hawkins) the definition of "open carry", a court could easily adopt the coded or common meaning used by other states if they didn't want to debate it out - which many have done over the years.

Good post.

The bottom line here for anyone open carrying is that if you're going to open carry in Pa., don't dick around with it or try to get cute with the definition of what constitutes open carry if you don't have a LTCF. If you're going to OC without a LTCF, carry only outside of your car, and (personally) I'd go one step further and carry OWB (with a retention device). Getting popped for being cute is pretty damn stupid.

And if you have a LTCF, you can carry anywhere along the spectrum from a derringer hidden in your undies to a Desert Eagle strapped to your chest over a blaze orange vest.

[Rule10b5]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

As mentioned, no definition in PA code.

So, with that we look at the definition of "concealed".
No definition for that either in the code.
Common definition if concealed is hidden from plain view.

So if it doesn't meet that definition, than it is not concealed.

If a casual observer can recognize it as a gun, it would not meet the definition of concealed, therefore it is open.

Tempting, but not exactly. If I'm carrying a Desert Eagle under a black skin tight spandex shirt, from plain view you can easily tell that I'm carrying a gun -- but the gun is still concealed. And (were I with the DA's office) I'd happily prosecute on such facts...and win if the guy doesn't have a LTCF.