Shouldn't NFA weapons be illegal in PA?

[Yachera]

‎6111.4. Registration of firearms.
Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section only, the term "firearm" shall include any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

Isn't registering NFA firearms illegal under PA state law because they are registered by the federal government? It says any government, and I'm assuming that the local ATF offices have access to those records. So there is a firearms registry in the commonwealth, if my reasoning is correct. Does this create problems? Can the attorney general of PA stop the registering of NFA weapons by using this law?

[knight0334]

State laws apply against the people within that state, and the state itself plus lessor governments. It doesn't apply against the federal government.

Also, the actual act of registering NFA weapons doesn't take place in PA. It takes place in WV and DC.

[ByblosHex]

Local and State Police are not legally obligated to enforce federal Law. Just throwing that out there.

[Noah_Zark]

If you want to be letter of the law legal on this, 6111.4 speaks only to prohibition of creating a firearms registry, not the legality of ownership of a particular type of firearm.

The more appropriate question to ask would be:

"Why does the PSP continue to maintain the "no such" handgun registry in direct violation of PA Code ~6111.4?"

Answer: Because they are above the law and can do so -- the PSP Commissioner/Commandant or WTF-ever he's called is not being held responsible to the law by either the Rendell or Corbett administrations.

Noah

[csementuh]

Federal law is more strict than PA law concerning NFA firearms, so it takes precedence. The more strict law between Fed and state takes over in all states. PA is no different, and as was said, PA can't overrule the federal law.

There is no registry of firearms in PA.
There is a federal registry of NFA items. This wins.

In PA you do however need to do a PSP Record Of Sale on some NFA items, but it still isn't a 'registry' and is no different than buying a handgun.

In PA many NFA weapons are 'handguns' and need a ROS turned in. This is because the definition of 'handgun' in PA applies to anything with a shorter OAL or barrel lenght hence most SBR's, SBS's, and AOW's are 'handguns' in PA.

Fun factoids: In PA law, a silencer isn't even a firearm, it's simply a muzzle device or a harmless hunk of metal. The feds define it as a Title II firearm, so that has to stick. In PA law receivers are also not firearms since they don't expel a projectile by action of an explosion, but the feds say they are. In fact, PA law doesn't even require photo ID in buying firearms, but the ATF says so, so as a dealer we must comply.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by csementuh

Federal law is more strict than PA law concerning NFA firearms, so it takes precedence. The more strict law between Fed and state takes over in all states. PA is no different, and as was said, PA can't overrule the federal law.

There is no registry of firearms in PA.
There is a federal registry of NFA items. This wins.

In PA you do however need to do a PSP Record Of Sale on some NFA items, but it still isn't a 'registry' and is no different than buying a handgun.

In PA many NFA weapons are 'handguns' and need a ROS turned in. This is because the definition of 'handgun' in PA applies to anything with a shorter OAL or barrel lenght hence most SBR's, SBS's, and AOW's are 'handguns' in PA.

Fun factoids: In PA law, a silencer isn't even a firearm, it's simply a muzzle device or a harmless hunk of metal. The feds define it as a Title II firearm, so that has to stick. In PA law receivers are also not firearms since they don't expel a projectile by action of an explosion, but the feds say they are. In fact, PA law doesn't even require photo ID in buying firearms, but the ATF says so, so as a dealer we must comply.

It depends on which passage.

18 Pa.C.S. § 908: Prohibited offensive weapons

(c) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Firearm." Any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6105: Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms

(i) Firearm.--As used in this section only, the term "firearm" shall include any weapons which are designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6107: Prohibited conduct during emergency

(c) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Firearm." The term includes any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any weapon.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6111: Sale or transfer of firearms

(f) Application of section.--
(1) For the purposes of this section only, except as provided by paragraph (2), "firearm" shall mean any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4: Registration of firearms

Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section only, the term "firearm" shall include any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

[csementuh]

Originally Posted by knight0334

It depends on which passage.

You're correct. I'm going off of the "what the PA State Police Firearms Unit tells the dealers to do concerning receivers" definition and the most basic definitions of 'firearm', 'long-gun', and 'handgun' here in PA. A receiver is most definitely a gun. I was just trying to show an example of how state can differ from the feds.

[Yachera]

Originally Posted by Noah_Zark

If you want to be letter of the law legal on this, 6111.4 speaks only to prohibition of creating a firearms registry, not the legality of ownership of a particular type of firearm.

The more appropriate question to ask would be:

"Why does the PSP continue to maintain the "no such" handgun registry in direct violation of PA Code ~6111.4?"

Answer: Because they are above the law and can do so -- the PSP Commissioner/Commandant or WTF-ever he's called is not being held responsible to the law by either the Rendell or Corbett administrations.

Noah

Funny thing, I actually called up my local PSP barracks and I asked a loaded question and cornered him with logic after he gave me what I would call "PSP policy" instead of what's legal. He than said that I was taking up his time and that this was an emergency line and then put me on hold, I waited for 10mins than hung up! It really bothers me as a CJ major that they promote their policy over law.

[Noah_Zark]

Originally Posted by Yachera

Funny thing, I actually called up my local PSP barracks and I asked a loaded question and cornered him with logic after he gave me what I would call "PSP policy" instead of what's legal. He than said that I was taking up his time and that this was an emergency line and then put me on hold, I waited for 10mins than hung up! It really bothers me as a CJ major that they promote their policy over law.

Let this be an object lesson for you in your career upon graduation that you cannot be above the law that you've sworn to uphold.

Best wishes and good luck to you in your studies and career path. It's often a long-hours, thankless job but like any job worth doing, it is worth doing well.

Noah