Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Action alert on HB2011 regarding Pre-Emption

Rep Mike Turzai has committed to move HB 2011. This bill strengthens pre-emption by providing for standing and compensation of expenses in the event a local law needs to be challenged that conflicts with State gun laws. Corbett said he will sign if it is put on his desk in the remaining 11 days left to the legislative session.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old December 14th, 2011, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

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Originally Posted by NomadShadow View Post
bump? anybody?
Keep the upper at a friends house who doesn't have an AR, or keep any lowers that you have at a friends house (who has a LTCF). People talk about constructive intent/possession all the time but I have never heard of someone who was actually convicted of it (not to say it's never happened). If you can get in trouble for having a short barrel and a non-SBR lower in the same house, can you get in trouble for having a shotgun and a hacksaw in the same house? How about a glass bottle and kerosene in the same house?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old December 14th, 2011, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

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Originally Posted by NomadShadow View Post
EDIT-
Quick question for those in the know... Is possession of a short barrel enough for the BATFE to get you on constructive intent (or whatever it is that they call the intention for building an illegal SBR)? I am aware that possessing an assembled SBR upper without possessing a SBR'd lower is enough for them to get you, but is just the barrel the same way (even if I do not posses a stripped upper to install the barrel on)? Basically, I'm wondering if I'd even be able to build this proposed upper myself or if I'd have to get a smith to do it for me.
Thanks!
First IANAL. I don't believe it would only take having a stripped upper and a short barrel to show intent. If you have ANY upper and a short barrel the BATFE could possibly show intent because you have all the parts needed. All it would take is to remove the legal barrel and attach the short barrel.

Now, if you did not have an AR anywhere in your possession (in your house, your place of work, your car or truck, etc.) then having a short barrel means nothing as you do not have anything in which to attach the barrel.

You can build your own SBR, you just have to have the tax stamp. Or you can get the short barrel, the barrel extension (to make it the legal length) and the capability to pin or weld the extension to the barrel. You don't have to have a gunsmith do it. In this case (you are going to build it) I would suggest that you build the barrel first, that way you have a legal length barrel in your possession.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

That's unfortunate, seeing as I already own an AR. Would owning / possessing a pistol lower, or a stripped lower purchased under pistol papers make it legal to posses a short barrel then? (Always looking for an excuse to get another lower )
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Old December 14th, 2011, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

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Originally Posted by NomadShadow View Post
That's unfortunate, seeing as I already own an AR. Would owning / possessing a pistol lower, or a stripped lower purchased under pistol papers make it legal to posses a short barrel then? (Always looking for an excuse to get another lower )
That should be fine.

IANAL
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Old December 14th, 2011, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

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Originally Posted by NomadShadow View Post
That's unfortunate, seeing as I already own an AR. Would owning / possessing a pistol lower, or a stripped lower purchased under pistol papers make it legal to posses a short barrel then? (Always looking for an excuse to get another lower )
As long as you buy a pistol upper, even though its the same thing. I just went through this actually. I have my form 1 still in hand, the lower is getting shipped out for engraving on friday, and my 7.5" "pistol" upper will be delivered here on friday.

When I contacted "Model1Sales" to buy my kit 2 weeks ago the guy told me well I cant sell you the "comando" kit (rifle kit) until I recieve a copy of your form 1. I said well the comando only comes in 10.25 and I want 7.5 so I will be buying your pistol kit. He is allowed to sell me that because on their side its being sold as a pistol.

But my main concern with that is YES I have a "pistol" kit that im going to be using in my SBR build,...? Why can I own that and not a "rifle" kit. I know I cant assemble it until my form 1 comes back, ss it just a legal standpoint to cover their side of things?
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Old December 15th, 2011, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

A 12" barrel with 4" of stuff on the end of it is a 16" barrel. Buy a 16" barrel instead and benefit from the length you will have anyway.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

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A 12" barrel with 4" of stuff on the end of it is a 16" barrel. Buy a 16" barrel instead and benefit from the length you will have anyway.
But he wants to use a suppressor, and a 16" barrel with a suppressor is unwieldy and cumbersome. The idea is to get that length down and still be legal without NFA paperwork.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

There is not a non-permanent option that is good. I cannot imagine any other becoming cheaper than a stamp, or as reliable. In this instance I think you gotta stamp it, pass on the idea, or deal with the longer barrel. The TacSol Ruger solution only works because it was purpose built to be that way, for other reasons. To do a 5.56 that way would result in something just as cumbersome as a 16" with a can, which really isn't that bad. Look into what guys in Washington State do as their laws do not allow SBR's but they do allow suppressors.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

You could get a 14.5" barrel with a pinned Vortex flash hider, and use a newer Gemtech Halo suppressor (apparently the old Halo's wont work with Vortex). That would save you about an inch and a half of length.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

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Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
....
The TacSol Ruger solution only works because it was purpose built to be that way, for other reasons.
....
I'm not sure I follow. I do not see why this would be a problem as long as the thing is permanently attached. Granted, I will be double checking that info with the BATFE (which I'm not entirely sure how to do btw...). To what other reasons are you referring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bac0nfat View Post
You could get a 14.5" barrel with a pinned Vortex flash hider, and use a newer Gemtech Halo suppressor (apparently the old Halo's wont work with Vortex). That would save you about an inch and a half of length.
That would be assuming that I'm building this chambered in 5.56, which I'm not. I plan on building this chambered in .300 Blackout (it's supposed to have better ballistics out of an SBR and suppress better than the 5.56).

The way I figure it, the average length of a .30 caliber can is about 10.5" (at least from the info I found published on several manufacturer's websites), so if I start with a 9" barrel the OAL of the barrel with can attached will be approximately the length of a 20" barrel. Still a little long but much more manageable than 26" that would be the result of putting the can on the 16" barrel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
.......
Look into what guys in Washington State do as their laws do not allow SBR's but they do allow suppressors.
From what I understand the folks in Washington State permanently attach their suppressors to their barrels in order to keep OAL down. If this project actually does fly, it will be superior to that approach in the fact that the can is not permanently affixed to one weapon and can have multiple hosts. If I do ever manage to get this flying I was thinking of running over to the Washington State Firearm Owners Association (if there is such a thing ) and give them some food for thought.
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