Trust Sample I used

[csementuh]

Originally Posted by Valorius

So basically $125 for the one time fee, plus attorney's costs, plus tax stamp, plus the NFA item, plus the waiting period?

What is a typical fee for an attorney to charge for an LLC?

Can NFA items be attached to any corporation? For instance, my father already has a corporation for his auto dealerships. If i am a company officer (and i am), can he obtain NFA items under his corp, and then as officer, let me take possession of and use them?

Thanks.

Why do you need an attorney to setup the LLC lol? PA's 'Open For Business' walks you right through the setup, has you pay, and then submits the Certificate or Organization directly. You then print the last page, sign and date it, and fax it in. PA's website also makes it simple to sign up for your Sales Tax License or other needed items. PA is rather small business friendly.

If you wanted the piece of mind, or something special, I'm sure a lawyer would happily perform their service for a fee.

Correct NFA items can be transferred to any legal entity with proper form and tax paid. Your father could do such a thing, but that seems like it may be a liability of sorts since the corporation also does other things. Potential negligence could cause a problem if you ask me; but I'm no practitioner of law. =)

IMHO the LLC or trust is easy enough to do that I would make one strictly for NFA weapons. It would just keep them that much more seperate and 'safer'.

[bac0nfat]

Originally Posted by Valorius

...For instance, my father already has a corporation for his auto dealerships. If i am a company officer (and i am), can he obtain NFA items under his corp, and then as officer, let me take possession of and use them?

Thanks.

I am certainly not a lawyer but I *believe* that is entirely possible and would be a legal means of acquiring NFA items. However there might be some disadvantages to doing it that way, I'm sure the NFA experts will chime in. One thing to consider is the items wouldn't actually be owned by you, obviously. You also might run into problems if the corp had to file for bankruptcy. You might be forced to liquidate the items?

I've thought about doing the same thing with my dad's corporation so I'm interested in hearing what other people say about it.

[csementuh]

IMHO, and even as advised by a lawyer, the LLC would be the way to go over the Corp. I feel comfy with a trust, so I use one. YMMV.

As you just said, potential problems with a Corp or LLC could cause undesireable effects. If the entity collapses, goes bankrupt, gets sued, or otherwise has bad stuff happen to it; the NFA items could be jeapoardized.

Why not just make a new LLC that is *only* for the guns to be on the safe side? It's really not thatttt much more effort.

Concerning the Corp in use as a car dealership, would you really want any of the officers of the corp using, taking, selling, breaking, etc, your NFA items? If they have say-so in the Corp, and the Corp owns the stuff, they can do what they want with it. Might not be a problem if it's just you and dad, but just sayin'.

[Valorius]

I am the only designated corporate officer for my fathers business (for purposes of legal repossessions), no one else would be authorized to use any NFA items. He has a highly secure gun safe on site.

My father is an ex Philly cop, and a total gun nut in his own right, so this makes sense to me on some levels. I don't know what could possibly happen with an NFA weapon (and honestly, i'm really only talking suppressors here) that would result in a liability issue.

Thanks for the advice guys.

[csementuh]

Originally Posted by Valorius

I am the only designated corporate officer for my fathers business (for purposes of legal repossessions), no one else would be authorized to use any NFA items. He has a highly secure gun safe on site.

My father is an ex Philly cop, and a total gun nut in his own right, so this makes sense to me on some levels. I don't know what could possibly happen with an NFA weapon (and honestly, i'm really only talking suppressors here) that would result in a liability issue.

Thanks for the advice guys.

So it's your business, and your dad works for you? Or it's his business and you are an officer as well? Either way, he would/could use the NFA stuff as well.

The 'what could possibly happen' would be if someone were to get injured while using one of the companies NFA weapons. That person could sue the company I'd imagine since it's their item. If you were talking expensive NFA toys, you could also have a problem if the company ever folded for whatever reason. People are sue-happy these days, so I'd do whatver I could to distance things.

Unless the company has a reason to have NFA items I personally don't think it's a great idea to have them just for the hell of it. My company has NFA items, but it needs to as it sells them. You could always just say the car lot needs some extra security, maybe it'll be a tax writeoff. =)

I don't think it's a *terrible* idea you have there, but I'm no pro, and this thread is a clusterf*ck of nitpicking, so I figured it was worth picking at.

[Valorius]

It's his corporation, he is the president and CEO, i am the only designated company officer. (In Pa, a company officer can repossess in the company name without additional licensing).

I doubt either one of us is going to sue the other!

It would be awesome if we could write off a suppressor, but that seems like an invitation to an audit! It's so silly that you have to go through all this to buy what amounts to a miniature muffler.

Thanks so much to you and Bacon Fat for your assistance, and to Maryland shooter for starting this thread and sharing his trust setup with anyone interested.

This thread has been very informative to me thus far.

[Holden23]

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

Your personal possession of a registered NFA firearm is entirely dependent on the validity of the entity, and your LLC or corp IS VALID once registered, unless you do something like move away without notifying the Commonwealth of the entity's new address.

Are you sure that LLCs must inform the Commonwealth of an address change? When I spoke to the Dept of State folks about updating the address for an LLC, they said they don't keep track of them. There's not even a form to change the mailing address (Form 8906 used to change the Registered Office address, which isn't the same).

It does seem to make sense, but I'd be very surprised if not having a current address on file would invalidate an LLC since the state doesn't provide a way to update it.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by Holden23

Are you sure that LLCs must inform the Commonwealth of an address change? When I spoke to the Dept of State folks about updating the address for an LLC, they said they don't keep track of them. There's not even a form to change the mailing address (Form 8906 used to change the Registered Office address, which isn't the same).

It does seem to make sense, but I'd be very surprised if not having a current address on file would invalidate an LLC since the state doesn't provide a way to update it.

I haven't had to file such a change in at least 10 years, but what would happen would be this: Some question would come up; they'd wonder if you should be paying sales tax or filing income tax or some other issue. They'd send a letter to your last known address, and you wouldn't get it. So you'd never respond. Meaning that you have forfeited your chance to clear up the questions, and this may result in suspension of your status. Worse, the Sheriff could show up with papers and you may be deemed to have received them (possibly by publication or other means). So you could default on a lawsuit and not know until the execution process.

I wouldn't let a client just move and not tell the Commonwealth, so whether it's actually required or not, I dunno. I'd have to look into it again, and I have no reason at the moment. There are a couple of forms that could be used to update the info.