Franconia man fires 'warning shots'

[Kramer]

"Good point. Material things can usually be replaced. Most of my material things I either don't use or I forgot they even exist. A human life can never be replaced. Taking a life for the sake of a few material things does not make an equation."


You better hope that the criminals in your area don't read this statement or your house will get cleaned out in short order!

Most people work hard for their money and "stuff" and I don't think that many will just stand there and wave goodby to their stuff while it's being carried off.

As far as insurance companys go they usually pay squat when your place is robbed or they only pay a percentage/ depreciation for what you claimed was stolen. Yeah I know someone will say "blah blah I have 100% coverage" but I call B.S.

Also keep in mind that "warning shots" are usually considered reckless endangerment.

[adymond]

Originally Posted by Steve_NEPhila

Shooting someone for stealing some of your shit is not cool.

It really is that simple. I have lots of shit, most of us have lots of shit and we have the ability to buy more shit. My insurance covers my shit. So my shit is not really that important. This does not mean that I will let someone have my shit, nope. I will fight to keep my shit, no doubt. But I would never shoot at someone attempting to flee after possibly stealing some of my shit.

The ability to procure more shit has no bearing on the fact that by an individual taking from me what I have worked to procure is much more than just taking material shit. Every penny I spend on shit represents time I have spent working to procure said shit. That is time away from my family, from my home, from doing that which I enjoy more than work. In short any theft of even the smallest material belonging I own is a violation of my personal property and the sanctity of my right to be secure in my person. I should have the ability and right to defend that violent violation with deadly force.

IMO it's pretty simple. You don't want to get shot by me don't threaten my life, my family, or my property. Sadly in PA we aren't allowed to protect our property unless our lives are directly threatened (or we have legitimate fear of threat). You may not feel that way, but I value my time away from my family VERY highly and if the fruits of my labor are taken without my permission it is just about the most egregious affront to my personal property that I can think of.

[smithwessn]

Unfortunately, the home owner will probably get his nuts clamped in a vise. It's sad that criminals are protected by law. If you don't want to get shot, stay the F out of other peoples homes. If it was open season on scumbags, maybe they would think twice about breaking in. They break in knowing damn right well all they have do is turn their back and run away to be "safe" form being shot. Total BS!

[Brillfan]

Originally Posted by Kramer

"Good point. Material things can usually be replaced. Most of my material things I either don't use or I forgot they even exist. A human life can never be replaced. Taking a life for the sake of a few material things does not make an equation."


You better hope that the criminals in your area don't read this statement or your house will get cleaned out in short order!

Most people work hard for their money and "stuff" and I don't think that many will just stand there and wave goodby to their stuff while it's being carried off.

As far as insurance companys go they usually pay squat when your place is robbed or they only pay a percentage/ depreciation for what you claimed was stolen. Yeah I know someone will say "blah blah I have 100% coverage" but I call B.S.

Also keep in mind that "warning shots" are usually considered reckless endangerment.

I never said I would "just stand there and wave goodby (sic)" to my stuff. But I maintain that shooting someone or even firing a warning shot is not the right way to handle the situation, and such actions will probably put the shooter in a lot more trouble than the burglar. Further, I really can't think of anything in my house that is worth more than a human life. How that sets me up for having my house cleaned out is beyond me.

[adymond]

Originally Posted by Brillfan

I never said I would "just stand there and wave goodby (sic)" to my stuff. But I maintain that shooting someone or even firing a warning shot is not the right way to handle the situation, and such actions will probably put the shooter in a lot more trouble than the burglar. Further, I really can't think of anything in my house that is worth more than a human life. How that sets me up for having my house cleaned out is beyond me.

If anyone steals ANYTHING from me they are stealing a part of my life. Every penny I spend on anything represents a portion of my life spent away from my family. That is worth more to me than some shitstain on society's life if they choose to put themselves in a situation where I must choose between a physical representation of a part of my life walking off or not.

[glockmaster]

Thanks for posting this. I live in Franconia and had not heard about this...

[Berks_Iraq_Vet]

When someone breaks into a home or comes onto someone's property with the intent to commit a crime, all bets should be off when it comes to "rights" for the criminal. They chose to cross a line. The determination of the criminal's intent or willingness to cause injury or death before eliminating a perceived threat is a risk most thinking people would not willingly assume.

[Eugene V. Debs]

Originally Posted by Philbert

or it turns out that the "felon" wasn't guilty of the crime you thought he committed (even on a technicality) you are looking at murder charges, regardless of the reasonableness of your beliefs or the lack of intent to kill the bystander.

Unless you are police officer. Then you and your partner can empty your mags into an unarmed man and simply explain you thought he was reaching for a gun, when he was really reaching for his wallet, and the DA, judge, or jury will either let you walk, or convict you on a much less serious crime then any of us civilians would suffer, and if you serve any time at all, you get to serve it in seg-- and you'll probably get to spend the entire court proceedings prior to conviction out on low bail.

[Eugene V. Debs]

Originally Posted by Steve_NEPhila

I believe strongly in the following two statements:

The first warning shot is for center of mass.

Shooting someone for stealing some of your shit is not cool.

It really is that simple. I have lots of shit, most of us have lots of shit and we have the ability to buy more shit. My insurance covers my shit. So my shit is not really that important. This does not mean that I will let someone have my shit, nope. I will fight to keep my shit, no doubt. But I would never shoot at someone attempting to flee after possibly stealing some of my shit.

This sounds like a George Carlin bit. So you wouldn't shoot them for taking your shit, but what if they took your stuff?

[MostlyHarmless]

Originally Posted by Berks_Iraq_Vet

When someone breaks into a home or comes onto someone's property with the intent to commit a crime, all bets should be off when it comes to "rights" for the criminal. They chose to cross a line. The determination of the criminal's intent or willingness to cause injury or death before eliminating a perceived threat is a risk most thinking people would not willingly assume.

Right, "breaks into", not "runs away". Very important difference (here in PA).

The problem is that once they turn around and flee, the threat is over. They either have done what they came for or abandoned/rescheduled their plan. There is no imminent danger to life or limb any more. All you can reasonably fear is them trampling down your flowers on the way out. All of course assuming they keep running "away" and don't reach for anything that you could reasonably assume is a gun.

As long as they are on their way in, it is unclear if this is a burglar that will flee or if it is one that will attack or if it is even a home invader that is after you and your loved ones. On the way in there is the chance to claim you had reason to believe it was an armed home invader, because you did warn him that you are armed and he kept getting in. But on the way out, that claim is getting much harder. Shooting into the general direction of the guy running off in the dark ... definitely no.

IANAL, but that is my understanding of the legal situation in PA.


Jan