Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

[nra-life-member]

It's bad all around when you read these types or sad stores.

[FUNDAMENTALS]

The death of anyone as a result of a LEO negligence is sad, but the death of
a Child, I will not go there, However there is a website any LEO officer
should go to:
www.aele.org/amicus. html
amicus curiae center, select: AELE PUBLICATIONS, Select
Law Enforcement Liabilty Reporter. I have subscribed for may years, friends of
mine that are attorneys also use the site. Check it out.

[soberbyker]

Originally Posted by FUNDAMENTALS

... However there is a website any LEO officer
should go to:
www.aele.org/amicus. html

Your link didn't work, here it is fixed: www.aele.org/amicus.html you had a space between the period and html rendered the link invalid.

select: AELE PUBLICATIONS, Select
Law Enforcement Liabilty Reporter.

Here is a direct link to the mentioned page:

http://www.aele.org/law/MLJTopics.html
.

[mikey]

After an almost 4 month investigation, here is what they came up with.

www.mcall.com/news/local/allentown/

[KeithPA]

.....Ruby Peoples, Daviay's great-grandmother, disagreed. She does not believe two officers heading to a call of a man with a gun would be driving at about the speed limit. ''This is not a cover-up,'' she said. ''It's a straight-up lie.''
.........
Before he became a city officer, Guth was fined for speeding four times -- once going 104 mph on the Turnpike's Northeast Extension -- and was found drunk and asleep in his car in another case that led to a drunken driving arrest, according to court records.

nice to see they get away with manslaughter.

[G21.45]

Saw this on the news at lunch, today. The rookie cop who ran the red light has been recommended for termination from the Allentown Police Department. He won't, however, have to face criminal charges. The other cop will be returned to duty; and, the city has offered the deceased's family the maximum dollar amount allowed by PA law - $500,000.00. (Not a bad deal for the Commonwealth!)

I'm left with two questions: Whatever happened to the, 'man with a gun'? Probably nothing, right! This is one of the arguments I have against open carry, and soccer moms. Either one can set off a needless riot; and, as in this instance, perhaps get someone killed.

Yes, I'm of the opinion that the police need to exercise more restraint - if not common sense. In Pennsylvania, 'man with a gun' does NOT equal, 'shots fired'; and, even when in, 'hot pursuit', it's not a good idea to run red lights.

Gee, I wonder if any of the responsibility for this accident belongs to the soccer mom who made the initial phone call? (Or, perhaps, to the 911 operator who failed to properly qualify it?) Kind 'a makes you think twice about open carry in an urban environment, though - Doesn't it!

The one thing I do not question is that the Allentown Police Department - clearly and unmistakably - needs to give all of its officers lessons in, 'RUD'. (Responsible Urban Driving) If I were that rookie cop's lawyer, I know this is how I'd be thinking right about now!

[NorwichGrad97]

I hope the cop who killed that child burns in hell. I am a father of a 4-year-old girl. When something terrible happens to any child I get very emotional and sick to my stomach.

I honestly would not know what to do if I were that child's father.

Rest in peace, little child.

[XD45]

the cop shouldn't have blown straight threw the light, we all know that.. And it happens a good bit a ross cop did that last year on christmas eve, nailed a lady when he had a redlight, and this was on a domestic call, and a 2nd unit had already arrived, luckily she was alright....

but if you're out walking your kids, and hear alot of cop cars coming from all over, why are you gonna let your kid stand on the sidewalk? i know if i started to hear and see that i'd take kids as far away as possible, not stand there and watch the lights...

[mikepro8]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

QFT -- I've seen you drive.



The worst part of that article for me was:



I can't believe someone would have the balls to say shit like that with a straight face. He ought to be fired for even suggesting it.

The cause of the unrest is that people feel increasingly alienated from the police (and government in general) -- it really has become an us v. them mentality for many people and police officers. And part of the reason for that is (in no particular order): (i) the war on drugs; (ii) the militarization of the police; (iii) class issues inherent in the U.S.; (iv) the (political) abandonment of local community policing in favor of distributed rapid response; (v) the use of police as a revenue generating tool; (vi) the perception that officers are not held responsible when they fuck up.

People are pissed because a little boy is dead, the police are responsible, and they think nothing is going to be done about it. When you mix that with all the above, of course people are going to borderline riot -- whether it's justified or not.

The only way the resentment in these communities is going to end is to eliminate the war on drugs, admit that we lost, get back to the officer on the street who lives in the neighborhood, ditch the BDUs and jack boots, and stop sweating the small shit. And none of these problems are an individual officer issue -- they're political and departmental issues. I miss when the officer on the street had the choice to be officer friendly, quite frankly, and I know a lot of cops who feel the same way.

First off, I agree that the police officer was at fault. Entirely, no question about it.
Secondly, I have to disagree and question a few statements made here.
i. The war on drugs. Have we lost? maybe. losing? maybe. Winning? I think not. However, this is an easy way out argument for everyone who criticizes current day law enforcement. Instead of criticizing, come up with ways to deal with the problem. Do something instead of pointing out a problem a fifth grader already knows. (generally speaking - not aimed at the original poster)

ii. Sadly, the defeinition of "the small shit" has greatly changed over the years. back in the day, it was a huge deal to have a dime bag on you. Now, most cops dont care. Why are we losing the war on drugs? I wonder. Could it be public perception, prosecutors and court systems who routinely nolle prosse cases or who consider the smaller drug cases as "small shit" and give up? I think so. Having lived it for nearly 9 years, I can say yes, that is a problem.

iii Ah, the militarization of polices. Why dont police live in the neighborhoods they police anymore? Because they ARE war zones (been to easton, PA or Camden NJ or Paterson, NJ lately?). Why would police officers (male or female) want to raise a family in a violence, drug, etc. ridden environment when they have the option not to? Again, public perception of the police is demonized so often anymore... just like everything else in the media. I am NOT downplaying this particular incident but I do blame media for some reactions. When is the last time you heard of the police doing anything GOOD? Its only the shocking things that make the news, not their everyday ventures which actually help people. Also, attitudes have greatly changed anymore. Since becoming a Parole officer almost 9 years ago, my perception of human beings has greatly changed. Carry 24 hours a day, dont trust anyone except for immediate family. Again, sadly, public perception of LE is much worse. BUT, which caused which? Chicken and the egg argument if you ask me. Bottom line is that type of policing is in the past and everyone knows what is in the past is done, cant be undone. Could we realistically have a police force that used to police "like they used to?' Not likely.

iv police as a revenue generating tool. What are the options, higher taxes? again, especially in small town USA these budgets are broken. We are paying for wars (one justified, the other not, in my opinion) half way around the globe, Bushy babe managed to skyrocket the federal deficit. Wages are down, the economy sucks, how do we solve it? I dont agree with using police to generate revenue, but again... options, anyone?

Cant argue with political abandonment. I agree one hundred percent. People feel (read to mean I feel) they dont have a voice anymore.

As for police accountability in general - I agree that this particular case's outcome was very sad indeed. Most of the cases end up similar to this unfortunately. A little boy lost his life, a family lost a son (even though no one knew the father's name WTF is THAT??? I wont get into that today - another HUGE part of the problem in America today) and the officer lost his livelihood and wasnt punished as a normal citizen would. However, the other side of that coin - sometimes - again, depending on prosecutors and courts (and I stress SOMETIMES) hold LEO's to a higher standard and get spanked harder than the ordinary citizen.

Lastly, class issues. I agree as well. Shrinking middle class america, tax breaks to big business and Social security handed out like the Shriners throw candy cause a HUGE problem. But, it comes down to politics. The guys and gals who get elected get elected sometimes because large corporations fund their campaigns OR people who own the large corporations. They arent going to bite the hand that feeds them and make taxes "fair" for the common man.

Again, not flaming or attacking anyone, just posting an opinion.