Report details problems with gun sellers

[LorDiego01]

They are increasingly a source of weapons used in crimes, advocates were told at City Hall.
By Robert Moran
Inquirer Staff Writer

Gun-control advocates joined Philadelphia Police Commissioner Sylvester M. Johnson yesterday in calling for more prosecutions of gun dealers who sell to the gun-traffickers and straw purchasers fueling the violence plaguing Philadelphia and other cities.

At City Hall, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence released a national report, "Shady Dealings: Illegal Gun Trafficking from Licensed Gun Dealers," that highlights more than two dozen cases - including nine in Pennsylvania - of dealers who sold guns that wound up in the hands of criminals. The criminals were prosecuted but the dealers were not.

"The recent upsurge in criminal gun violence places renewed importance on the question: Where do criminals get their guns?" the report states.

The report identified, among others, Abington Gun Sports in Willow Grove, which allegedly sold to female straw buyers working for a man who authorities say then went on a rampage in Philadelphia in 2003, holding up fast-food restaurants, carjacking a Lexus, and robbing a bank of nearly $60,000.

The guns the women bought included an AK-47 SAR assault rifle, two 12-gauge shotguns, a Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle, and a Marlon 30-30 rifle, according to the federal indictment of Andre Henry, three other men and three female straw purchasers. The case is pending.

"Is it any wonder that Philadelphia streets are overrun by illegal guns?" asked Brian J. Siebel, coauthor of the report.

Johnson said Philadelphia needed federal help because Pennsylvania gun laws are weak.

Frank D. Strange, owner of Abington Gun Sports, said in a phone interview that he was vigilant about straw buyers and anyone else who shouldn't be buying guns, but that he couldn't spot everybody trying to fool him.

He said that in an effort to thwart illegal purchases, he bans customers from using cell phones in his store to prevent possible straw buyers from getting advice about which guns to buy.

He also said that when he suspects people are acting as straw buyers, he lets them fill out all the paperwork first, then refuses to make the sale. He then provides the completed paperwork and ID evidence to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which investigates gun trafficking.

In addition to the regular reports he must make to the ATF, Strange said, he must submit a separate report every three months about his activity because his store has a higher-than-normal rating for "time to crime" - the time that passes before a gun he sold is used in a crime.

He attributed the rating to his proximity to Philadelphia, but he said he can't stop selling to people from Philadelphia if they appear to be legitimate buyers.

Strange, 63, a retired banker, called the Brady Center "a bunch of whackjobs" who want to "disarm everybody."

Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Center and former mayor of Fort Wayne, Ind., said the ATF had been greatly weakened by pro-dealer legislation Congress passed, including some laws dating to 1986.

For example, if ATF agents make a surprise visit to a gun shop suspected of breaking the law, they are not allowed to make another surprise visit for 12 months, Helmke said. During that period, the ATF must warn the dealer in advance that they are coming.

Strange, who has owned his shop for about eight years, said ATF agents had inspected it three or four times, most recently last week when they came in to retrieve all his sales documentation from last year. He said the visits were all unannounced.

With Democrats now in control of Congress, gun-control advocates and law enforcement leaders will press their case for new laws and tougher enforcement.

Today, Mayor Street is expected to join more than 50 other mayors, including Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York, at a summit in Washington to address the proliferation of illegal guns.
Contact staff writer Robert Moran at 215-854-5983 or bmoran@phillynews.com.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/n...______________

[LittleRedToyota]

clearly the blame lies with the mining companies who mined the ore that was used to make the metal that was used to make these guns that were sold to someone who broke the law by buying the guns for someone else who was not eligible to buy the guns themselves.

i mean, after all, if that ore had never been mined, philly would be a completely crime free city.

time to put the blame where it really belongs. those mining companies should be sued until they go bankrupt, and the miners should be thrown in jail. and we should outlaw the possesion of ore.

[Frenchy]

LRT DONT give them ideas. Between makin metal illegal, and then plastic will soon follow...





What kind of cars can we drive them?

[GunLawyer001]

Guns don't cause crime, people from Philadelphia cause crime.

The truth is that Philadelphia is home to many of my friends, some very fine people who just live in the wrong place, where their moral fiber and dedication to living within the law is incongruous and unrewarded. Do the police ever say "Oh, YOU should carry a gun because YOU'RE not a criminal", or do the cops treat every Philadelphioa resident as a crook who just hasn't been caught yet?

Philadelphia is rife with criminals, scofflaws, and corrupt government. I doubt that there's been an honest election in the city in the last century, every year some of the voting machines "accidentally" decline to register Republican votes, and absentee ballots are like a bogus vote slush fund for the Democrats in charge. I remember one year, around 1995 or so, where there was proven election fraud committed by some election official, he was removed from office and replaced by his niece.

Car insurance is high, but car insurance fraud is even higher. Philadelphia has maybe 10% of the Commonwealth's population, but half of all car thefts. Must be the fault of car dealers and "straw drivers", I guess.

Gun control is not the answer. Prisons have zero gun sales, yet your chance of being killed in prison is higher than being killed outside, because prisons have many criminals, and criminals will find ways to commit crimes.

I'm on board with massive punishment for straw purchasers where there's actual criminal intent. If I buy a rifle that I intend as a gift for a friend, there should be no crime. If I buy a pistol that I intend to resell to a friend because he's been looking for that model for years, no crime. But if I buy a gun for somebody because he can't pass PICS, then I think 20 years in jail is appropriate.

Nine straw purchase incidents in Pennsylvania is miniscule for a state of maybe 12 million people, but the anti's want to use it to justify "One Gun A Month". Maybe they should target the straw purchasers. If you catch just 1 out a 100 straw purchasers, but that one that you catch goes to jail for 20 years, you'll have a real deterrent to the next 100 who are asked to purchase for criminals.

[LorDiego01]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

clearly the blame lies with the mining companies who mined the ore that was used to make the metal that was used to make these guns that were sold to someone who broke the law by buying the guns for someone else who was not eligible to buy the guns themselves.

This is probably one of the greatest sentences I've read on PAFOA yet. I'd give you more positive feedback, but the system wont let me.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

Guns don't cause crime, people from Philadelphia cause crime.

The truth is that Philadelphia is home to many of my friends, some very fine people who just live in the wrong place, where their moral fiber and dedication to living within the law is incongruous and unrewarded. Do the police ever say "Oh, YOU should carry a gun because YOU'RE not a criminal", or do the cops treat every Philadelphioa resident as a crook who just hasn't been caught yet?

Philadelphia is rife with criminals, scofflaws, and corrupt government. I doubt that there's been an honest election in the city in the last century, every year some of the voting machines "accidentally" decline to register Republican votes, and absentee ballots are like a bogus vote slush fund for the Democrats in charge. I remember one year, around 1995 or so, where there was proven election fraud committed by some election official, he was removed from office and replaced by his niece.

Car insurance is high, but car insurance fraud is even higher. Philadelphia has maybe 10% of the Commonwealth's population, but half of all car thefts. Must be the fault of car dealers and "straw drivers", I guess.

Gun control is not the answer. Prisons have zero gun sales, yet your chance of being killed in prison is higher than being killed outside, because prisons have many criminals, and criminals will find ways to commit crimes.

I'm on board with massive punishment for straw purchasers where there's actual criminal intent. If I buy a rifle that I intend as a gift for a friend, there should be no crime. If I buy a pistol that I intend to resell to a friend because he's been looking for that model for years, no crime. But if I buy a gun for somebody because he can't pass PICS, then I think 20 years in jail is appropriate.

Nine straw purchase incidents in Pennsylvania is miniscule for a state of maybe 12 million people, but the anti's want to use it to justify "One Gun A Month". Maybe they should target the straw purchasers. If you catch just 1 out a 100 straw purchasers, but that one that you catch goes to jail for 20 years, you'll have a real deterrent to the next 100 who are asked to purchase for criminals.

+1. Bravo!

[dgg9]

"The report identified, among others, Abington Gun Sports in Willow Grove, which allegedly sold to female straw buyers working for a man who authorities say then went on a rampage in Philadelphia in 2003, holding up fast-food restaurants, carjacking a Lexus, and robbing a bank of nearly $60,000."


So the Chief of Police wants FFL dealers to spot straw purchasers...how? By what criteria? By definition, the straw buyer's NICS check came up clean. So on what basis should the dealer refuse to sell?

What "Gun-control advocates joined Philadelphia Police Commissioner Sylvester M. Johnson" to really mean is that dealer should profile buyers, based on, I guess, appearance? Of course, if an FFL refused to sell to someone based on profiling (aka, appearance, race, whatever), I GUARANTEE the dealer would be on 20/20 the next day, being investigated for civil rights violations and racism.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by LorDiego01

This is probably one of the greatest sentences I've read on PAFOA yet. I'd give you more positive feedback, but the system wont let me.

well, thanks anyway.

the "logic" of the anti's is a never-ending source of amusement for me. i mean you've gotta either laugh or cry...

[billamj]

Considering that this is coming out of Philly, the one city in the state that is trying to get the pre-emption law reversed, does it really surprise anyone? We all know that none of this would stop one crime, but its feel good legislation that they are trying for, something to sell to the sheeple in Philly who will blindly vote for the party that has been ruining the city for decades. Another crock of bull.

[phillyd2]

Originally Posted by LorDiego01

He said that in an effort to thwart illegal purchases, he bans customers from using cell phones in his store to prevent possible straw buyers from getting advice about which guns to buy.

Is this why I see No Cell Phone signs in so many gun stores and at gun shows?