Philadelphia: Nutter Proposes Crime Plan that stops sale,posession,carry of firearms!

[MiniDevil]

Originally Posted by JoePSU

I'm sure he understands the law. He's a Penn graduate for goodness sakes. It's Politics, pure and simple. No different from when Bush says "Stay the course" when he's obviously messed up, or when Clinton said... well, you know.

It's politics. You have to see the forest from the trees on this one, or Philadelphia's revival stops November 2007.

Of course Bush messed up. But if we pull out at this point, what's going to happen? We started a bigger war than we thought. If we pull back, its basically a RETREAT, which means its coming to us!

[JoePSU]

Originally Posted by MiniDevil

'Straw buyers' arent even a real issue. It's just anti-gun propaganda, first off.

Law enforcement is already empowered. They simply need more finances. And no matter what you think of anyone (I am all for stopping crime, and am the first to get pissed off when someone takes advantage of another or hurts another), until they are proven guilty, they are innocent. There is no way in hell I would ever stand to see someone 'suspected' have all their rights stripped away. Anyone who believes a suspect should have no right is not a true patriot of this country. The spirit of our liberty is to keep innocent people free. Do you remember, "Better ten guilty men go free than one innocent punished"? I think people have forgotten what our country was founded on. Freedom.

And just because of a little crime, because a mayor cannot properly balance his budget, you are prepared to treat suspects as if they are terrorist insurgents?

Back to my main point, straw buyers are a non issue. If a criminal wants a gun, they are going to get a gun. They will break into someones house whom has an NRA sticker on their car. They will buy one underground (which are usually stolen firearms anyway). Or they will just use a knife.

People believe too much political propaganda.

What's the difference between an Iraqi insurgent and 16 year old drug dealer with a history of gun violence and drug crimes? They're both incredibly violent, uncivilized, and fanatical dangers to the American government and way of life. The only difference is where they were born and what they are disillusioned about.

And it is not a "little" crime, and the problems are caused by more than finances. The causes of the problem are one thing, however total warfare on drug violence is a plausible solution. Complaining about fiscal irresponsibility is merely ignoring the problem and shirking away from a bold solution.

[JoePSU]

Originally Posted by MiniDevil

Of course Bush messed up. But if we pull out at this point, what's going to happen? We started a bigger war than we thought. If we pull back, its basically a RETREAT, which means its coming to us!

Again, I agree with you. I think we should stay there until we win or are summarily defeated. There is no other option once you are committed.

But that is not my point. My point is politicians are slimy motherfuckers who will do anything to get elected, stay in power, or curry favor.

[MiniDevil]

Originally Posted by JoePSU

What's the difference between an Iraqi insurgent and 16 year old drug dealer with a history of gun violence and drug crimes? They're both incredibly violent, uncivilized, and fanatical dangers to the American government and way of life. The only difference is where they were born and what they are disillusioned with.

And it is not a "little" crime, and the problems are caused by more than finances. The causes of the problem are one thing, however total warfare on drug violence is a plausible solution. Complaining about fiscal irresponsibility is merely ignoring the problem and shirking away from a bold solution.

People with a "history", I can see. You shouldn't be allowed to have a "history". One mistake should be allowed with drugs per person. If youre caught again, you ought to go to prison and labor (no free rides - you pay your keep with your labor). If you cause violence and kill someone, death penalty. We need stricter punishments, not anti-gun laws. The only thing anti-gun laws do is hurt the freedoms of law abiding citizens.

[MiniDevil]

Originally Posted by JoePSU

Again, I agree with you. I think we should stay there until we win or are summarily defeated. There is no other option once you are committed.

But that is not my point. My point is politicians are slimy motherfuckers who will do anything to get elected, stay in power, or curry favor.

Agreed as well.

[JoePSU]

Originally Posted by MiniDevil

People with a "history", I can see. You shouldn't be allowed to have a "history". One mistake should be allowed with drugs per person. If youre caught again, you ought to go to prison and labor (no free rides - you pay your keep with your labor). If you cause violence and kill someone, death penalty. We need stricter punishments, not anti-gun laws. The only thing anti-gun laws do is hurt the freedoms of law abiding citizens.

Well so many of the kids, literally KIDS, who are committing these crimes have a history of violence and drugs. They've been in and out of the system their entire lives, and horribly neglected by their parents and communities.
I make no excuses for them. If they commit a violent crime, they deserve to never see the light of day again. I am not exaggerating - these guys are in the ER with a gunshot wound one day, with a bullet hole through their medicaid access card and billfold full of hundreds, and the next week back on the street dealing. I have seen this. I am NOT exaggerating.

If an ex-con can't vote, why should an ex-juvie with a history of gun violence not be approached and frisked if reasonable cause exists for possession of an illegal weapon? You should see these street corners man. Being 21 years old, not at "work" and handing baggies to people in cars as they pass by should be reasonable cause for search and seizure, but they just let it go, because the commissioner is lazy, and the Mayor and ward leaders appease and enable them all.

I say send in the national guard to these neighborhoods. It is worse than the third world.

[MiniDevil]

Originally Posted by JoePSU

Well so many of the kids, literally KIDS, who are committing these crimes have a history of violence and drugs. They've been in and out of the system their entire lives, and horribly neglected by their parents and communities.
I make no excuses for them. If they commit a violent crime, they deserve to never see the light of day again. I am not exaggerating - these guys are in the ER with a gunshot wound one day, with a bullet hole through their medicaid access card and billfold full of hundreds, and the next week back on the street dealing. I have seen this. I am NOT exaggerating.

If an ex-con can't vote, why should an ex-juvie with a history of gun violence not be approached and frisked if reasonable cause exists for possession of an illegal weapon? You should see these street corners man. Being 21 years old, not at "work" and handing baggies to people in cars as they pass by should be reasonable cause for search and seizure, but they just let it go, because the commissioner is lazy, and the Mayor and ward leaders appease and enable them all.

I say send in the national guard to these neighborhoods. It is worse than the third world.

I say the exact opposite. I say draft these "kids" and send them to Baghdad. Why waste our resources?

[JoePSU]

Originally Posted by MiniDevil

I say the exact opposite. I say draft these "kids" and send them to Baghdad. Why waste our resources?

Hah, that would be like the Hessian mercenaries or the Persian hordes. No honor, no skill, and no vested interest.

A squad of 5 highly trained and motivated volunteer marines is more effective than 20 gangbanger conscripts.

[KeithPA]

Originally Posted by JoePSU

I'm sure he understands the law. He's a Penn graduate for goodness sakes. It's Politics, pure and simple. No different from when Bush says "Stay the course" when he has obviously messed up, or when Clinton said... well, you know.

It's politics. You have to see the forest from the trees on this one, or Philadelphia's revival stops November 2007.

I hope your kidding? A degree from Penn? So what? If you looked around the site we have article after article of anti-gun propoganda by people from Ivy League schools. It's propoganda right now, but this luney wants to make it a law. Big difference.....

What about targeting the straw buyers? Naw.....let's just keep the 100,000 other law abiding citizens from buying more than one gun per month. If the gun is evidenced it can be traced and if several lead back to the same man...hmmm...but lets not go after him.... let's change the whole system. I mean there are so many murders out there... lets just change the definition of murder, that way we'll have less...nice attempt at logic though....

troll alert....

[MiniDevil]

Originally Posted by JoePSU

Hah, that would be like the Hessian mercenaries or the Persian hordes. No honor, no skill, and no vested interest.

A squad of 5 highly trained and motivated volunteer marines is more effective than 20 gangbanger conscripts.

They would either learn the traits or make good decoys. It's their choice in life.