States Seek to Pass Bills Cracking Down on Fake Firearms

[Pector55]

Originally Posted by BSH

I thought one of the cardinal rules of firearms use was KNOWING WHAT YOU'RE SHOOTING AT. Are cops so poorly trained, and of such a dangerous disposition that merely carrying a toy gun can get a kid shot??? (no offense to good LEOs, but we all know that there are some who aren't so good)

This commentary by the legislator smacks of posing & grandstanding. Somebody get him out of the statehouse and put him where he can no longer threaten society - get him a real job.

From another perspective, perhaps they want this in place for more teeth? Say a criminal robs a store with an airsoft gun in which he removes the orange tip. Upon arrest, he argues that he never had an actual weapon because it was fake. Does that make it a lesser charge since there was no "weapon" involved? Maybe adding this verbiage helps in a scenario like this?

I have no idea, just tossing it out there and hoping there was somewhat of a good reason. LOL

[Dredly]

Originally Posted by BSH

I thought one of the cardinal rules of firearms use was KNOWING WHAT YOU'RE SHOOTING AT. Are cops so poorly trained, and of such a dangerous disposition that merely carrying a toy gun can get a kid shot??? (no offense to good LEOs, but we all know that there are some who aren't so good)

This commentary by the legislator smacks of posing & grandstanding. Somebody get him out of the statehouse and put him where he can no longer threaten society - get him a real job.

Did you see my post where I put an Airsoft USP next to my real USP?

Even in full sunlight I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Are you going to take the time to ask him if its real?

The example given is a PERFECT example of when this is needed. A cop rules by and sees some idiots in a car pointing a gun at another car. Is it fake? is it real? clealy you have assume its real and act accordingly.

Today nothing would happen... if this passes they'd be in trouble.

[P-11 shooter]

You want to pass laws to keep kids from getting shot?

I'll save them the work.....DON"T SHOOT KIDS!

there's no reason to shoot a kid if you're not sure it's not a toy gun. Unless a kid shoots at you, don't shoot at him.

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by Pector55

From another perspective, perhaps they want this in place for more teeth? Say a criminal robs a store with an airsoft gun in which he removes the orange tip. Upon arrest, he argues that he never had an actual weapon because it was fake. Does that make it a lesser charge since there was no "weapon" involved? Maybe adding this verbiage helps in a scenario like this?

I have no idea, just tossing it out there and hoping there was somewhat of a good reason. LOL

In PA, if a reasonable person would believe the thing is a real gun, the crime is treated as if you have a real gun. There are good reasons for that. One, an unarmed victim is scared and traumatized just as much so the crime is as bad. Two, an armed victim is likely to shoot, thus resulting in gunfire from the robbery attempt. The gov't doesn't want either of those things to happen.

There have been studies showing that LEOs are usually able to identify the orange tip before shooting. It's not 100%. Non-LEO armed citizens are even worse at it (that's what the studies show). As far as kids with real looking guns, in some places kids have real guns. It is really hard to tell.

Just wondering out loud, would it be a bad thing to teach children never to point a gun at anyone (even a toy gun). When I was a kid, of course we played with toy guns and never had any problems of someone mistaking the toys for the real thing. The difference being that when I was a kid, kids didn't sometimes have real guns. Maybe it depends on where it is. Out in the burbs, kids running around playing are just kids playing. In an urban center, it's not so clear.

However this shakes out, I don't think the answer is to simply pass more laws. At some point, parents have to take responsibility for what their children are up to. If the parents can't handle that responsibility, as we have seen time and again, gov't is an even worse substitute and gov't intervention in these types of issues just leads to more irresponsibility by absolving the parents through these all encompassing types of laws.

The gov't might as well just pass a law that says nobody can do anything where anything bad might possibly happen -- we all freeze in place and gov't is happy.

[shooter357]

Originally Posted by Driver400

Ok, and how would one go about hunting with a toy, beat the deer to death?

Make it fall over laughing!

[shooter357]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

In PA, if a reasonable person would believe the thing is a real gun, the crime is treated as if you have a real gun. There are good reasons for that. One, an unarmed victim is scared and traumatized just as much so the crime is as bad. Two, an armed victim is likely to shoot, thus resulting in gunfire from the robbery attempt. The gov't doesn't want either of those things to happen.

There have been studies showing that LEOs are usually able to identify the orange tip before shooting. It's not 100%. Non-LEO armed citizens are even worse at it (that's what the studies show). As far as kids with real looking guns, in some places kids have real guns. It is really hard to tell.

Just wondering out loud, would it be a bad thing to teach children never to point a gun at anyone (even a toy gun). When I was a kid, of course we played with toy guns and never had any problems of someone mistaking the toys for the real thing. The difference being that when I was a kid, kids didn't sometimes have real guns. Maybe it depends on where it is. Out in the burbs, kids running around playing are just kids playing. In an urban center, it's not so clear.

However this shakes out, I don't think the answer is to simply pass more laws. At some point, parents have to take responsibility for what their children are up to. If the parents can't handle that responsibility, as we have seen time and again, gov't is an even worse substitute and gov't intervention in these types of issues just leads to more irresponsibility by absolving the parents through these all encompassing types of laws.

The gov't might as well just pass a law that says nobody can do anything where anything bad might possibly happen -- we all freeze in place and gov't is happy.

When I was a kid running around playing with toy guns, it gave us a respect for firearms and helped us become responsible with the real thing. From what I see now, playing with toy guns gives kids a feel for how to handle a gun for their crimes. Then again things, life, was different when I was growing up.

[Dredly]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

In PA, if a reasonable person would believe the thing is a real gun, the crime is treated as if you have a real gun. There are good reasons for that. One, an unarmed victim is scared and traumatized just as much so the crime is as bad. Two, an armed victim is likely to shoot, thus resulting in gunfire from the robbery attempt. The gov't doesn't want either of those things to happen.

There have been studies showing that LEOs are usually able to identify the orange tip before shooting. It's not 100%. Non-LEO armed citizens are even worse at it (that's what the studies show). As far as kids with real looking guns, in some places kids have real guns. It is really hard to tell.
:

Assuming the orange tip is still on the gun or visible... 5 seconds with a sharpie and there is no orange tip anymore

[MrUgly]

Originally Posted by BSH

I thought one of the cardinal rules of firearms use was KNOWING WHAT YOU'RE SHOOTING AT. Are cops so poorly trained, and of such a dangerous disposition that merely carrying a toy gun can get a kid shot??? (no offense to good LEOs, but we all know that there are some who aren't so good)

Originally Posted by p-11 shooter

You want to pass laws to keep kids from getting shot?

I'll save them the work.....DON"T SHOOT KIDS!

there's no reason to shoot a kid if you're not sure it's not a toy gun. Unless a kid shoots at you, don't shoot at him.

I have a slightly different take. If you point a gun at a LEO, you need to expect to be shot. There is only one reason to do that: You are trying to intimidate the LEO into stopping what he is doing, IE, his job. The second you pull out an airsoft gun, a real gun that has been rendered inert, an empty gun or one that is fully loaded, safety off, you have just become a threat. A LEO should not have to wonder "Gee, is that a toy? I'm I going to get sued for defending myself?" If he judges it to be a toy, he may have just ended his life.

I'll be the first one to vilify a cop that shoots an unarmed suspect. I will gleefully jump ont he bandwagon when another stomps all over a citizens civil rights, just because he's an ignorant pinhead. I will never, NEVER, put his life or that of his partner below mine or anyone else's. He may be the biggest asshat to roam this green Earth, but getting killed by some punk is not a fitting end.

You want to safeguard the children? Teach them to not point guns at Cops. That's just stupid, and stupidity has a tendency to be fatal. In that case, justifiably so.

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by Dredly

Assuming the orange tip is still on the gun or visible... 5 seconds with a sharpie and there is no orange tip anymore

Yeah. So?

It can break off too.

Are those reasons the gov't should be involved in banning certain toys?

[Dredly]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

Yeah. So?

It can break off too.

Are those reasons the gov't should be involved in banning certain toys?

Maybe I misread the article... I didn't see anything about banning anything, just assigning charges to using a non-real firearm replica