On Stossel's gun control show...

[Ten*K]

didn't see any mention made of the statement by the Brady Campaign's Dennis Henigan last night on Stossel.

The subject being discussed was "registration", where Dennis Henigan stated (and was not corrected on what we all know to be an outright lie) that "We have successful registration already in Pennsylvania". Apparently he's been talking to Philly PD.

He also made mention of the success in Washington DC gun crimes (another outright lie), he states "90% of the guns used in crimes in D.C. came from states with weak gun laws"

I'm sure they would, since no one sells them in D.C. Ass.

[wa3ra]

No, Mr. Hennigan; what we have in PA is de facto ILLEGAL registration.

[GunLawyer001]

Many, perhaps most PA police believe that we have gun registration. They KNOW we do, because they can call a gun in and find out what name is attached to it. It's rare that the gun doesn't match the person they took it from, so that cops routinely keep the gun when there's a mismatch, or no record. This shows that the PA Supreme Court blew it when they held that it wasn't a prohibited "registry", it was just a harmless record of sales.

As for DC's gun crimes, well of course the guns used in crime in DC were sold somewhere else, to the best of my knowledge, there are no actual FFL dealers in DC (although one anti-gun activist has an FFL in DC, in violation of Federal regs, since he has no intent to engage in any sales or manufacturing.) Criminals will get what they need, while the law-abiding will hide under desks and behind locked doors.

What Hennigen either overlooks or simply fails to be bright enough to grasp, is that those states with weaker gun laws (BTW, EVERY state has weaker gun laws than the District, which has effectively banned all guns), those other states don't have anywhere near the crime problem of DC. So how is it that states where guns are easy to obtain have little crime, while the nearby DC, where only criminals and cops carry guns, is a cesspool of violence?

His answers were pathetic; he said (paraphrasing here) "you can't compare DC, which is a city, with any of the 50 states". Maybe true, but DC is also worse on a per-capita basis than any city that allows private gun ownership.

[leeam]

His answers were pathetic; he said (paraphrasing here) "you can't compare DC, which is a city, with any of the 50 states". Maybe true, but DC is also worse on a per-capita basis than any city that allows private gun ownership.

DC is pretty bad per capita, but I wouldn't go so far to say it's worse per capita than any city that allows private gun ownership (at least according to wikipedia's 2008 data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._by_crime_rate ). The following cities have a higher murder rate than DC (murder rates per 100,000 population and carry info is from USACarry.com):

31.4 DC (May Issue, Residents Only)
36.9 Baltimore (May Issue, Residents and Non-Residents)
37.4 Detroit (Shall Issue, Residents Only)
46.9 St. Louis (Shall Issue, Residents Only)
63.6 New Orleans (Shall Issue, Residents Only)

I don't have any idea if there's a bunch of hoops (or costs) you have to go through to actually purchase a firearm, weird restrictions on types of firearms, or any of that stuff, which is certainly a factor. If I had to make a guess I'd say that these numbers are probably largely influenced by the judicial systems of these areas. Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are at 23.0 and 23.2 respectively while NYC is at 6.3.

[topsykretts]

What can be done legally to force this illegal registry to be done away with? Why hasn't it been done already?

[leeam]

What can be done legally to force this illegal registry to be done away with? Why hasn't it been done already?

Simply elect Tom Corbett and all your problems will go away. I mean he promised he would end it if he was elected governor.

Since I don't have much confidence in that, basically you can't do anything. The law very clearly states that the PSP must destroy the record of your transfer within 72 hours, but they don't. The PA Supreme Court has already sided with the PSP on this issue. A few years ago the FBI wrote a letter saying that our "registry that's not a registry" was in violation of the law, but the PSP didn't change anything then either.

Not really sure what can be done aside from the General Assembly passing an amendment that says "when we say destroyed within 72 hours we really mean it this time" and hope the PSP complies with the new version.

So the situation we are in is that the Executive branch (PSP) and Judicial (PASC) are knowingly violating the laws set forth by the legislative branch. What do you do in this situation? You can't appeal it to the PA SC. Unfortunately the only realistic thing I see is that Tom Corbett follows up on his campaign promise and ends it if he's elected governor since the governor is the head of the PSP he, in theory anyway, should be able to do it if he chooses to.

The relevent portion of the law for reference:

§ 6111(b)(1.1)(v)
Unless it has been discovered pursuant to a criminal history, juvenile delinquency and mental health records background check that the potential purchaser or transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms), no information on the application/record of sale provided pursuant to this subsection shall be retained as precluded by section 6111.4 (relating to registration of firearms) by the Pennsylvania State Police either through retention of the application/record of sale or by entering the information onto a computer, and, further, an application/record of sale received by the Pennsylvania State Police pursuant to this subsection shall be destroyed within 72 hours of the completion of the criminal history, juvenile delinquency and mental health records background check.

[gnbrotz]

What can be done legally to force this illegal registry to be done away with?

Everyone needs to lend their guns to one another, so no names match when checked. Hundreds of guns get will be confiscated, and perhaps a class-action suit could be filed.

[YBNORMAL]

Everyone needs to lend their guns to one another, so no names match when checked. Hundreds of guns get will be confiscated, and perhaps a class-action suit could be filed.

Was this meant to be a joke? Because iirc, with an LTCF you can loan out a gun and you might really be onto something here. I would do it.

[fingers80002]

Everyone needs to lend their guns to one another, so no names match when checked. Hundreds of guns get will be confiscated, and perhaps a class-action suit could be filed.

Make sure everyone goes and buys a High-point, first........

[kcr121]

Everyone needs to lend their guns to one another, so no names match when checked. Hundreds of guns get will be confiscated, and perhaps a class-action suit could be filed.

Was this meant to be a joke? Because iirc, with an LTCF you can loan out a gun and you might really be onto something here. I would do it.

You do not recall correctly. As an LTCF holder, you can legally receive a loaned firearm, but having an LTCF does not allow you to "loan out a gun" to just anyone. See below.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6115: Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited

(a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.

(b) Exception.--

(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:

(i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).

(ii) The person who receives the firearm is exempt from licensing.

(iii) The person who receives the firearm is engaged in a hunter safety program certified by the Pennsylvania Game Commission or a firearm training program or competition sanctioned or approved by the National Rifle Association.

(iv) The person who receives the firearm meets all of the following:

(A) Is under 18 years of age.

(B) Pursuant to section 6110.1 (relating to possession of firearm by minor) is under the supervision, guidance and instruction of a responsible individual who:

(I) is 21 years of age or older; and

(II) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms).

(v) The person who receives the firearm is lawfully hunting or trapping and is in compliance with the provisions of Title 34 (relating to game).

(vi) A bank or other chartered lending institution is able to adequately secure firearms in its possession.

(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa.C.S. Ch. 21 (relating to intestate succession) or by bequest if the individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105.

(3) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the loaning or giving of a firearm to another in one's dwelling or place of business if the firearm is retained within the dwelling or place of business.

(4) Nothing in this section shall prohibit the relinquishment of firearms to a third party in accordance with 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping).