Oregon teacher fights to take gun to class

[Dan77]

[quote=brewguy;110053]Dan a gun grabber is someone who doesn't want guns in the hands of the public. You say that if everyone carries we will have shootouts on every corner. You equate people carrying to people about to comit a crime.

No I don't equate it to that at all. Many people carrying are not responsible.
And I don't believe anyone here falls into that catagory. But we all know the types.

There has been enough said from this members perspective.
I will stand on what I beleive.

Regards to all.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by Dan77

No apologies are needed. But thank you.

I am a very stong advocate for the right to own and carry wepons, and have no problems with the right to carry, as I do, in the right places. I just stongly beleive that there are better methods, ways, to protect our children in school then teachers carrying a gun. Security personal is another matter. I would have more faith that they are atleast taught to use them responsibly.
If many schools don't have security, then that is the place to start.

Regards.

But under Act 235, teachers would receive the same required training as security personnel do. In fact, I'd wager that at least initially, they'd have the opportunity to get better training as I can see outfits like The FIRE institute, Suarez, Gunsite etc... offering top-tier training in addition to the Act 235 qualifications to support such a measure.

No security system can keep a determined person out. Ask any security expert in the world, they’ll tell you that nothing is totally secure, there are only degrees of more or less secure.

[Zef_66]

I read over this and think about my wife, who is a teacher. Or my dad, or my sister-in-law. All teachers. And the elementary schools that my wife and sister-in-law teach at have zero for security. The best they have is a front office down the hall and a sign that reads "All visitors must report to the Office" Anyone can walk in there any time and do whatever the hell they want. And that scares me.

Heaven forbid, if there is a parent that gets upset with my wife and goes crazy and comes looking for her, where will they go? Will they look up her name in the phone book, get her address, and come to our house, where there are enough guns for every window and then some? Or are they going to come to school where they know its a "Gun Free Zone" just perfect for someone looking to commit a crime. No guns meaning no one to stop them.

Dan77, you talk about common sense, but I don't think you have done much research on gun control and how effective it is. I am not going to sit here and post up quotes or whatever, but just want to say that gun control doesn't work, and gun control zones are totally pointless.

Also, my wife goes through training every year during inservices about what they should do if someone entered the building with a gun. Or the property for that matter. If they are on the play ground, she is taught to tell the kids to run towards the door of the school, putting herself inbetween the mass of kids and the shooter. Her job is to protect those kids from being hurt. That is her job, just as much as teaching them how to tie their shoes. Frankly, positioning herself between the kids and the shooter is about the worst defense you can do.

As I said, her job is to protect her kids as well as educate them. If she doesn't do her job and doesn't teach the kids, she is fired. If she looses a kid, allows him to run off, or someone gets hurt because of her neglect, she is fired. On the other hand, if she is unable to teach efficiently because she doesn't have the proper tools to do so, ie old textbooks, computers, no chalkboard, desks, etc, the public would be up in arms about it, screaming for something to be done. The school board would be pressured for the right tools for her to do her job. But if something bad would happen, she doesn't have the best tool to protect her students, ie a handgun. Seems odd to me.

[Mtbkski]

More children are killed every day while riding a bicycle than by handguns. But it is OK for a kid to ride his bike to school. Maybe we should ban bikes at school, cause what if one kid rides into another kid and hurts or kills him.

I would rather see one kid accidently shot by a teacher trying to stop the guy that has just shot 15 kids down the hallway. Then to be able to say, "Well not one kid was shot by the teacher today during that terrible shooting, because we made sure they weren't armed. So the loss of those other 15 kids that the teacher had to stand there and watch this guy shoot is OK Thank goodness none of the teachers were armed. Our children are safe. Whewwwwww."

Maybe none of us should carry firearms (not just teachers). I mean think about it......There are children in Wal-Mart when we shop. There are children on the streets where we walk our dogs. OH MY GOD..... WE ARE CARRYING FIREARMS AROUND CHILDREN!!!!!! We don't want firearms around the children, so maybe we all should sell our handguns and stop carrying. Now the children, our families, and all of us are much safer.

COME ON..................

[TaePo]

Let's not forget the many laws that infringe on our freedoms are designed as preventative measures. Unfortunately, no one seems to remember that if you use a gun or car irresponsibly, we have a criminal and civil court system that will get you.

We are getting too indoctrinated into thinking laws are designed only as preventative measures that actually work and that we must have laws to cover every contingency. It is the courts that allow us to reduce and apply the laws with any common sense. We need to focus on the courts and not so much the writing of new laws limiting more freedoms.

You are already under governmental scrutiny to obtain a permit. So why is it still restrictive, especially when the individual right is not to be infringed by the 2A?

Most criminals who are not mental want easy victims. The police claim they are out-gunned by the criminals. If more citizens carried more often, would not the criminals issue the same complaint??

When you are the only one armed, everyone else is just a target.

If everyone is armed...well, Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) is how the government called it during the Atomic Age.

[Mtbkski]

Anybody hear anything else on this fine young lady? How her suit is going?

[Zef_66]

Just saw this on another gun forum:

Medford teacher wins first round in legal fight to bring gun to school

08:20 AM PDT on Friday, October 12, 2007

Associated Press

MEDORD, Ore. -- South Medford High School English teacher Shirley Katz won the first round of her legal bout for the right to carry a pistol onto school grounds Thursday.

Jackson County Circuit Judge G. Philip Arnold dismissed a motion by the Medford School District to dismiss the case because she has not actually broken the school policy prohibiting teachers from bringing guns to school.

The judge told Katz he will issue a written opinion on her claim that the policy violates state law that gives concealed weapons permit holders the right to take guns into schools and other public buildings.

Outside the courtroom, Katz said it would be "naive" to think no one is carrying guns to school, she is just the first person with a concealed weapons permit to assert her rights in public.

Her attorney, James Leuenberger, argued in court that the Legislature never intend to give cities, counties or school districts power to regulate guns.

School district attorney Tim Gerking countered that the school district policy does not fall under that prohibition, because it only applies to employees and not the general public.

Gerking added that if Katz wins, "school districts ... could be reduced to armed camps," and school officials could be blamed for gun accidents at schools.

[Mtbkski]

Her attorney, James Leuenberger, argued in court that the Legislature never intend to give cities, counties or school districts power to regulate guns.

School district attorney Tim Gerking countered that the school district policy does not fall under that prohibition, because it only applies to employees and not the general public.

See, even the School District Attorney says it is alright for "US" to carry our firearms on School grounds. Cause we are the General Public and we aren't employed there.

I wonder if he realized what he just stated.

I wish we could do something to help this woman out. To let her know that we support her. Anyone got an address we could write too?

[Agent Smith]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

More children are killed every day while riding a bicycle than by handguns. But it is OK for a kid to ride his bike to school. Maybe we should ban bikes at school, cause what if one kid rides into another kid and hurts or kills him.

I would rather see one kid accidently shot by a teacher trying to stop the guy that has just shot 15 kids down the hallway. Then to be able to say, "Well not one kid was shot by the teacher today during that terrible shooting, because we made sure they weren't armed. So the loss of those other 15 kids that the teacher had to stand there and watch this guy shoot is OK Thank goodness none of the teachers were armed. Our children are safe. Whewwwwww."

Maybe none of us should carry firearms (not just teachers). I mean think about it......There are children in Wal-Mart when we shop. There are children on the streets where we walk our dogs. OH MY GOD..... WE ARE CARRYING FIREARMS AROUND CHILDREN!!!!!! We don't want firearms around the children, so maybe we all should sell out handguns and stop carrying. Now the children, our families, and all of us are much safer.

COME ON..................

Agreed.

They all think it will be horrible that there may be one person accidentally shot by allowing a teacher to carry, but they don't use common sense and think about the many more that would die as a result of not having a firearm to stop the assailant in the first place.

[Zef_66]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

I wish we could do something to help this woman out. To let her know that we support her. Anyone got an address we could write too?

A quick google of the attorney's name came up with this website. There is a link to his email address. So I am sure you could contact him and ask him how you can show your support for the teacher. Or have him forward the email to her.

Also found this page that has a description of the case as well as the media coverage for it. I haven't gotten a chance to read it all, but I hope to tonight or tomorrow morn.