Oregon teacher fights to take gun to class

[Dan77]

responsibility carrying a firearm

How about common sense on where to carry a gun.

Yes there are many what if's.
What if it is your child that is shot.....? Who will you go to to bring your child back ?....the BG or the teacher that shot your child by accident...or the school board that let the teacher have it in the first place.
What if the whole community are carrying guns into banks, airports.
What if an argument at a 7-11 results in a shooting because of a parking space ?
Teachers and staff responsibly carrying firearms....How do we know that they even know how to clean a firearm. Most that own firearms probably only shoot once a year.
The minute that someone buys a handgun and get their permit to carry, they think that it is responsible to carry it anywhere.
The right to carry does not releive us of the law of common sense.

[brewguy]

Dan77 are you sure you are progun? you certainly sound like a grabber. I mean if everyone carrys chaos is going to breakout and we will have shootouts over parking spaces..

So again how can a teacher protect their kids?

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by Dan77

responsibility carrying a firearm

How about common sense on where to carry a gun.

To me, IT IS common sense for responsible teachers who are able to purchase a weapon and obtain a PA LTCF to carry a weapon in school; it means my children are protected from a threat at a time when I am not able to protect them myself, by someone who has already been entrusted by the school system to teach my children, keep them safe, not abuse them, etc.

Originally Posted by Dan77

Yes there are many what if's.
What if it is your child that is shot.....? Who will you go to to bring your child back ?....the BG or the teacher that shot your child by accident...or the school board that let the teacher have it in the first place.
What if the whole community are carrying guns into banks, airports.
What if an argument at a 7-11 results in a shooting because of a parking space ?

Sorry Dan, IMHO all of the above is just more fear-mongering used to vilify weapons. As mentioned in the video I posted above, the CDC couldn't find one instance where gun control legislation reduced crime; in fact, it increased it.

If you want to fear-monger, I could do the same thing: what if a criminal entered your kid's school with a gun and tried to shoot them? Who will YOU go to to bring him/her back? In addition, I'll give you another hypothetical that your fear-mongering doesn't consider: What if there was a possibility that someone could prevent it? Wouldn't you want your child to have every opportunity possible to survive in such a situation?

What if the whole community carried guns? So what? There's a BIG difference between people as a whole carrying weapons and criminals carrying weapons. Again, don't vilify us all because criminals illegally carry weapons and use them to harm. There are over 600,000 LTCFs currently issued in PA; I don't see these 600,000 out on a criminal rampage.

Originally Posted by Dan77

Teachers and staff responsibly carrying firearms....How do we know that they even know how to clean a firearm. Most that own firearms probably only shoot once a year.

According to current PA law, teachers who volunteer for such work would likely require Act 235 certification, as they would be utilizing weapons in performance of their job. Unlike a PA LTCF, this certification requires training and qualification. The teachers who volunteer and are willing pay for such certification would be as well trained (and possibly more so) than local law enforcement.

Originally Posted by Dan77

The minute that someone buys a handgun and get their permit to carry, they think that it is responsible to carry it anywhere.

Again, this is a baseless generalization used to classify all law-abiding gun owners and LTCF holders as "gun nuts". It is responsible, and legal, to carry it anywhere allowed by law, whether you like it or not. Admittedly, carry in schools is a legal grey area, at least in PA, due to the "all lawful purposes" clause pertaining to schools in the UFA never being tested in court. However, if this clause without question covers police officers (which it does), then there's no reason to believe that it wouldn't teachers with Act 235 certification performing their duties with permission of the school, or even regular citizens for that matter.

For someone who claims to have a PA LTCF and own guns, you seem to have opinions very contradictory to such ownership and carry. Remember the real reasons for the 2nd Amendment: to allow us to protect ourselves from those who wish to do us harm, especially a government out of control.

[Dan77]

Originally Posted by brewguy

Dan77 are you sure you are progun? you certainly sound like a grabber. I mean if everyone carrys chaos is going to breakout and we will have shootouts over parking spaces..

So again how can a teacher protect their kids?

Yes I am Progun, just as much as everyone here, but with common sense. grabber ????
Everone carrying...just my point. Start with teachers, who else will want to carry ? before you know it we have shootings on every street corner.
Where is it writen that a teacher is suppose to protect their kids with a gun.
Did they learn that in college along with their teaching degree ?
Teacher are there to teach not carry guns. The minute that something goes wrong in a school, we want to blame it on the teacher. If secruity is doing their job, no one can enter any school with a gun, and therfore gives no reason for a teacher to be carrying a gun. You stop the problem before it enters the school.
Like I said ....Common sense tells us where to carry and where not to.
School is not the place.

[Dan77]

vilify....fear monger


I have my opinion just as you have.

let's leave it at that.

Besides, we will never see it happen.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by Dan77

Everone carrying...just my point. Start with teachers, who else will want to carry ? before you know it we have shootings on every street corner.

If you can say this about everyone else that has the right to carry a gun, they could say the same ting about you. How do we know you're not going to be the one to start the local corner shooting?

For most people, the presence of a weapons is a deterrent, not an catalyst.

Originally Posted by Dan77

Teacher are there to teach not carry guns. The minute that something goes wrong in a school, we want to blame it on the teacher.

Schools systems are also legally responsible for my child and have an obligation to their safety from the minute they leave my doorstep until the minute they return. With the current state of affairs, I don't think they're doing their job.

Originally Posted by Dan77

If secruity is doing their job, no one can enter any school with a gun, and therfore gives no reason for a teacher to be carrying a gun. You stop the problem before it enters the school.

NEWS FLASH: Not all school systems have, or can afford, a security detail. And even if they did, how is an UNARMED security guard going to be any more effective than an unarmed teacher at stopping a threat? If schools allowed teachers who wish to volunteer their own time and money to get Act 235 certified do so, and carry in school, then we could reduce the tax burden by eliminating useless security details, and our kids would be safer for it. Or we could use the money to pay for, I don't know, books and computers and the like, which our schools seem to be sorely lacking these days.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by Dan77

responsibility carrying a firearm

How about common sense on where to carry a gun.

Yes there are many what if's.
What if it is your child that is shot.....? Who will you go to to bring your child back ?....the BG or the teacher that shot your child by accident...or the school board that let the teacher have it in the first place.
What if the whole community are carrying guns into banks, airports.
What if an argument at a 7-11 results in a shooting because of a parking space ?
Teachers and staff responsibly carrying firearms....How do we know that they even know how to clean a firearm. Most that own firearms probably only shoot once a year.
The minute that someone buys a handgun and get their permit to carry, they think that it is responsible to carry it anywhere.
The right to carry does not releive us of the law of common sense.

By that reasoning, no one should carry a gun anywhere, not even the police. Most cops shoot less than I do, and with a 60-hour a week job and enough hobbies to fill the rest of the time, that's not as often as it should be.

The fact is, those that carry firearms for lawful purposes do not normally get into arguments and shoot people over parking spaces. The fact is, school shootings are very rare, despite media claims to the contrary. So many bolts of lightning would have to strike in one place to bring about the type of calamities that you suggest that the reality is, the threat of them simply doesn't outweigh the benefits of an armed society, even (or especially) when said armed society permeates our schools.

Common sense on when and/or where to carry a gun? The common sense answer (which admittedly is not all that common), is anywhere one might need to defend themselves (or others) from a violent attack. Unless you have a crystal ball or a psychic connection to Miss Cleo, you cannot know when such will happen, so you either carry or you don't...it's not a question of when or where, it's only a question of whether or not you take on the responsibility to protect your own life and the lives of anyone under your charge.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by Dan77

I have my opinion just as you have.

let's leave it at that.

Fair enough, we'll leave it at that then. My apologies if my emotions got in the way of my argument; I try to respect everyone's opinions here. It's just that I've seen, read, and heard many of the same types of statements from people who are afraid of guns and wish to make everyone else around them afraid of guns so that there's a consensus of fear on which to base gun control.

Originally Posted by Dan77

Besides, we will never see it happen.

You never know. In PA, the legal framework is already there, it's just never been tested in the courts.

[brewguy]

Originally Posted by Dan77

Yes I am Progun, just as much as everyone here, but with common sense. grabber ????
Everone carrying...just my point. Start with teachers, who else will want to carry ? before you know it we have shootings on every street corner.
Where is it writen that a teacher is suppose to protect their kids with a gun.
Did they learn that in college along with their teaching degree ?
Teacher are there to teach not carry guns. The minute that something goes wrong in a school, we want to blame it on the teacher. If secruity is doing their job, no one can enter any school with a gun, and therfore gives no reason for a teacher to be carrying a gun. You stop the problem before it enters the school.
Like I said ....Common sense tells us where to carry and where not to.
School is not the place.

Dan a gun grabber is someone who doesn't want guns in the hands of the public. You say that if everyone carries we will have shootouts on every corner. You equate people carrying to people about to comit a crime.

No one is saying that a teacher should be required to carry a gun. We are saying that if a teacher chooses to carry for their own saftey that they should be allowed to. Where I grew up there is no security, I'm serious NONE. So while my kid is at school I expect the school to be responsible for their safety. Is that unreasonable?

What about common sense tells us carrying in a school is bad?

[Dan77]

No apologies are needed. But thank you.

I am a very stong advocate for the right to own and carry wepons, and have no problems with the right to carry, as I do, in the right places. I just stongly beleive that there are better methods, ways, to protect our children in school then teachers carrying a gun. Security personal is another matter. I would have more faith that they are atleast taught to use them responsibly.
If many schools don't have security, then that is the place to start.

Regards.