Federal Agents Searching People @ Indianapolis Bus Stops: 8/2/2007 (LONG)

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The following post is a "cross polination" from RWVA.org "Liberty's Price" forum.

I have checked the enclosed link of video evidence, and it appears valid.

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Welcome to another creeping slide towards the big brother state. On August 2, 2007 over two dozen agents of the TSA setup two checkpoints at bus stops in Indianapolis Indiana and searched passengers who wanted to ride on city buses. Federal agents, including Air Marshals were present and patted people down, looked in bags, and performed "behavior" tests for the stated purpose of finding weapons and people who were a threat to public safety.

Before you think I am joking, let me refer to both the Indianapolis Star report TSA checks IndyGo Bus Passengers as well as posted first person reports of what happened yesterday and why it effects us all.

The first reports I heard of something going on yesterday seemed like a bloggin hoax:


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Anybody know what's going on? There are TSA stations with about 20 agents each set up in at least two spots in downtown Indy, 1 is near Capitol and Market, the other is near the federal building. They're stopping and searching people getting on and off city busses and travelling on the street. This is going a little too far. Where exactly did this authority come from?

(reference: Feds searching people in Indy )

I thought this had to be a hoax since the TSA surely had better things to do than hassle people riding buses in a major US city. But over the day more and more reports came in confirming that not only were searches being made, but that they were being made by federal agents (including Air Marshals) and that many agencies were involved.

Then came a report from the Indianapolis Star, which said:


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Screeners from the Transportation Security Administration checked passengers at two Downtown city bus stops this morning, looking for weapons and suspicious behavior.

David Kane, federal security director for TSA in Indianapolis, called it a "VIPR" operation.

"It's called Visual Intermodal Prevention Response. We have plainclothes inspectors, blue-gloved uniformed security officers who are checking baggage, the behavior detection officers, and federal air marshals, which are the law enforcement arm of TSA."

Security stations were set up at bus stops at Capitol Avenue and Market Street, and Ohio and Meridian streets.

Some passengers were patted down or submitted to having bags checked.

TSA said the searches were “by-permission,” meaning patrons could decline to be checked. Those who did would not be turned away, an official said, unless they otherwise appeared to be a security threat.

(reference: TSA checks IndyGo bus passengers quoted above)

So to be clear, 20 or more agents of the federal government came to Indianapolis, downtown, and setup two search stops for those wanting to ride the bus. People could decline, legally, but only if the knew they could. Traveller safety was the excuse, but in reality all the were on an explicit fishing operation that included everything plus "behavior detection officers".

Did people even know they could decline the search? That is unclear. But at least one report indicates that they TSA weren't even aware of local law! For those who do not know, Indiana allows licensed individuals to carry firearms and accepts permits from other states for individuals to carry firearms as well. We have the highest per capita concealed carry population in the nation and the TSA was not even aware of our laws.


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My wife has a cousin who lives in Indy and he was one of the lucky ones volunteered for a pat-down. He, like me, recognizes the value in being prepared for one's own self defense. The screener asked if he could be patted down for weapons to which he responded "I'll save you the trouble, my licensed handgun is on my right hip." The screener thought he was joking. Once she realized he was serious she announced that there was a situation and called in the reinforcements.

He was told rudely "YOOOOUUU CAN'T CARRY A GUN AROUND HERE!" And he replied "I bet I can, this isn't an airport..." By then a supervisor walked over, took a quick look at his Kentucky CCW and asked the Indianapolis PD next to him if it was any good. The Indy cop replied that a CCW from any state or country is valid in Indiana. So the supervisor declared in a loud voice to let him proceed, treat anyone with a CCW like a cop and pass them on. Needless to say though, he had a very quiet bus ride with lots of passengers staring at him the whole time.

Aside from being galled at the concept of this kind of thing, I think it's pretty sad that the federal security professionals need to learn the rules as they go. One would think that if you were supposed to set up a checkpoint to screen for weapons, you'd do a preliminary check to see what was against the law in Indiana, what was permitted, etc. Goes to show how arbitrary the whole thing is.

(reference: Federal Agents Searching Civilians in Indy (No BS) ).

So what was this operation, why was it needed, and what does it mean for us all?

First, it was a clear encroachment on our 4th Amendment rights. Even if it was legal (because individuals could refuse it), the fact that law enforcement is searching people without cause is an encroachment.

Second, it was an encroachment done by the Federal Government in the guise of proposed safety. While Indianapolis has had crime problems, the bus system has not been the hub of those problems. Nor have any federal crimes been committed on Indianapolis busses.

Third, it was a Federal operation performed by those who are not even aware of the law. Since they had no understanding of Indiana weapons laws and were performing weapons searches, why should I have any confidence in their understanding of, and care for Constitutional law in regards to personal searches.

Fourth, it was a Federal invasion of civilians that used our federal tax dollars to search bus passengers, who if criminal could have moved on to the next bus stop or just declined the search. The very same Air Marshals that are supposed to be protecting our plans are searching people at bus stops. This operation could hardly have been an effective expenditure of resources, especially as no reported arrests or confiscations took place.

Fifth, the stops seem to be better explained as a test of what encroachments Americans will accept, and the fact that only one article has mentioned it, sparsely at that, makes their test a likely success for federal agencies that seek to expand their powers.

So now it is up to us to decide, again, what is acceptable and what is not.

Personally, I planned to contact my Congressman in the morning (as this was a federal operation) and demand some basic investigations be done. Specifically, I have the following questions:

1. Why my tax dollars were spent this way?
2. What SPECIFIC threat this was addressing?
3. What CLEAR 4th Ammendment considerations were taken in the planning and made clear in the searches?
4. What effect this event was expected to have among the population, etc.?
5. Why were federal agents unaware of Indiana law when they were there to search for violations of that law?
6. Was any notification given to the public before the event (as is done with road-blocks)?
7. In a time when there are concerns with not having enough air marshals on commercial planes, why do we have them at bus stops rather than at the airport?
8. Are there plans to continue this program or expand it to other cities? Should we all expect federal agents to be searching citizens in our streets with no cause?

To my fellow Liberty Seekers, I ask "Where is the reporting on this?" I have not seen anything in the anywhere. As such, I thought that it was really just the beginning.

Guess What?! I was wrong, thanks to a fellow blogger, the fact is this is a part of an 18 month old program opposed by law enforcement groups:


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The law enforcement association already was unhappy with an 18-month-old TSA program that teams the agency's armed federal air marshals -- who have law-enforcement powers -- with unarmed screeners and inspectors on special units deployed at airports, rail and bus stations.

These squads, known as Visual Intermodal Protection and Response units, or VIPR teams, gained a higher profile earlier this month when they were sent to East and West Coast airports and other transportation facilities to beef up security patrols in the wake of terrorist incidents in England and Scotland.

"The teaming up of highly trained federal air marshals with civilian TSA screeners in uniform in front of airports and train stations is a recipe for disaster," Gordon wrote. (source: Lawmen object to plans for screeners
Badges for airport staff invite disaster, group says

And finally video evidence (please note those fake badges on their shirts):

Sign says: ALL INDIVIDUALS AND ACCESSIBLE PROPERTY ARE SUBJECT TO SEARCH

I will add the letter I just sent to my Congrassman in a followup to this post.

THIS IS NOT THE FUTURE. THIS IS NOW. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON QUIETLY FOR 18 MONTHS!

[MarcS]

I'm glad at least 1 CWP holder stuck it to them.

Stuff like this needs to stop. They have been granted jurisdiction but as far as I'm concerned have zero constitutional authority. Municipal mass transit generally does not travel interstate.

here's an actual news article, so, yes, it appears this actually happened
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...LOCAL/70802006
http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.a...1&nav=menu35_4

All this is government desensitizing people to being searched and having to display their papers....next stop: slippery slope, police state and end of the line.

[Emptymag]

ALL IN THE NAME OF SAFETY FOLKS!
Nothing to see here, move along.

Nice, in-depth articles there! LOL!
Hey, as long as the sheep feel they are being protected...

Step right up for your identification micro-chip folks. You'll be MUCH safer that way.

Sheesh!

[Lougotzz]

Empty mag you got that right about the micro chip. It is reality. It is done on animals and it is biblical prophecy. The world leader is almost here.

[D-FENS]

Originally Posted by Lougotzz

The world leader is almost here.

It's Bush, isn't it?

[Lougotzz]

People think that but it is not. This guy is going to be an absolute world dictator.

As much as Bush and his daddy are into the new world order it is not them. You will know when he is here.

[knight0334]

Has anyone thought to give that Indy PD officer a pat on the back for knowing the law??

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by knight0334

Has anyone thought to give that Indy PD officer a pat on the back for knowing the law??

Shame that cops need to be rewarded now for knowing the laws they enforce, but given that most don't, i guess he deserves it.

[knight0334]

I agree... But his/her action and knowledge helped to defuse the situation some.

[brewguy]

I talk about stuff like this at work and people think I am crazy. The stuff actually happens. Just wait till we have video cameras and microphones on every street corner.

If you all have not seen V for Vendetta you should.