What would you do if this happened to you?

[NightRocker]

Originally Posted by ehidle

Damn, I don't have nearly that many bullets...

LOL!!!!!!!!!!! somebody does I can't find any.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by ehidle

Damn, I don't have nearly that many bullets...

Put a knife, fork and a piece of beef on a plate in the middle of the road, and when they congregate to try to figure out what "meat" is and how one uses utensils, use the flamethrower.

Unfortunately, half an hour later you'll want to do it again.

[ehidle]

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

Put a knife, fork and a piece of beef on a plate in the middle of the road, and when they congregate to try to figure out what "meat" is and how one uses utensils, use the flamethrower.

Unfortunately, half an hour later you'll want to do it again.

Half an hour??? You mean I gotta wait that long???

Besides, wouldn't that ruin a perfectly good steak?

[Tootie]

Originally Posted by ehidle

Half an hour??? You mean I gotta wait that long???

Besides, wouldn't that ruin a perfectly good steak?

He didn't say to cook it first, that's what the flame thrower is for.

[ungawa]

Originally Posted by Helter

Play number one is to give them some guns cooperatively, but have others hidden. A section of 4 inch PVC pipe with ends welded on and dessicants inside will probably keep a small selection of firearms safe from just about any environment for a year or two. Good thing to prep ahead of time, though this only really works if they're not forcing evacuation.

Me and five guys will find every firearm on your (presumed) 1 acre of property and in your 3,000 square-foot house within 2 hours. Unless you chaff geophysics - GPR, magnetometer, electromag, thermal (we will heat your house up quickly to find objects behind floors/walls), and total earth field magnetometer.

Play number two would be to simply barricade yourself in and tell them to move on, that you're not leaving, they'll have to break in, and the first 5 guys through the door are gonna die. The idea here is not to get into the fight, but to leverage their limited resources. Sure, they can lay siege to your house, but how many more do they have to clear by the end of the day? How much do they really care about getting you out? You've got at least a moderate chance of them deciding you're not worth the effort, and depending on your exact wording probably a decent chance of winning any subsequent prosecution (IANAL, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night)

You forgot GASOLINE. Does not require a lot of resources.

The key here wouldn't be the actual violence itself, but more the realization that comes to the 100-300 people that each of us know, when they realize that the government murdered their friend. And the people on the news who see it happening over and over, who question why.

You're expecting assistance from the media? They are going to show only white people shooting and only black people hit. Because it's racism.

[Helter]

Originally Posted by ungawa

Me and five guys will find every firearm on your (presumed) 1 acre of property and in your 3,000 square-foot house within 2 hours. Unless you chaff geophysics - GPR, magnetometer, electromag, thermal (we will heat your house up quickly to find objects behind floors/walls), and total earth field magnetometer.

No, you really won't. Not that you couldn't find them, but you wouldn't find them in two hours. Sure, if you expend enough resources, you'll eventually find anything I've hidden. But who said I was limiting it to on my property?
It's easy to find things when you know what you're looking for and where you're looking. If you don't know that there's anything in the first place, and it could be literally anywhere, that makes things quite a bit harder. When I cooperatively turn over some weapons, and provide police reports for the others that have been stolen, how much effort are you really going to put into searching for others that might not exist? Keep in mind that you have 51,999,999 houses to search after mine.

You forgot GASOLINE. Does not require a lot of resources.

Sure, if they want to murder me I'm pretty much screwed no matter what. That's why this option was listed in situation 1, not 2. If the gov. turns against me, they'll win. If it's just the local authorities trying their best to contain a bad situation, they're probably not interested in burning me and my house.

You're expecting assistance from the media? They are going to show only white people shooting and only black people hit. Because it's racism.

No, I'm not. I'm expecting the people who know me to recognize that I'm not the person that the media portrayed me as. I'm expecting your friends to do the same thing if you were in that position. If 10,000 make a stand, that's a few million friends, family, and acquaintances who would be seriously questioning what was happening.
This wasn't a position that I'm advocating btw, it's just one that I see having the potential to win overall.

[ungawa]

Originally Posted by Helter

No, you really won't. Not that you couldn't find them, but you wouldn't find them in two hours. Sure, if you expend enough resources, you'll eventually find anything I've hidden. But who said I was limiting it to on my property?

Yes, the two hours was referring specifically your 1-acre property and 3,000 square-foot house. Not off-property.

It's easy to find things when you know what you're looking for and where you're looking. If you don't know that there's anything in the first place, and it could be literally anywhere, that makes things quite a bit harder.

I can find any place anyone has ever dug on your 1-acre property, every place fill has been used, every place there is a small void in the soil, every place there is a metallic object, and every place there is a non-soil object in about 1 hour. If you are thinking about me walking around with a metal detector and digging up every signal, that's not what I am talking about. In 1 hour I can grid 1 acre with all technologies and then have it mapped in a computer. It will be pretty obvious where reasonable targets are buried with the combined mapping. This is without GPR or seismic, which can give pretty good pictures to discriminate targets later if needed.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I will rapidly heat or cool your house. I will see every stud, every pipe, every place insulation is missing, and almost every object behind a wall. I will mark them with spray paint. Electromag will be run simultaneously starting at the other side of the house and all anomalies marked with spray paint. GPR will be run simultaneously in the basement. Magnetometer and thermal will also be used on furniture.

We are not looking to preserve evidence, it's recovery. So this will not take days, only hours.

You are correct, you could successfully hide something. Just as you chose to point out some tactics, I wanted to point out counter-tactics. It's probably not as easy as you think. Knowing this, with a whole lot of decoys, your chances would increase substantially.

Sure, if they want to murder me I'm pretty much screwed no matter what. That's why this option was listed in situation 1, not 2. If the gov. turns against me, they'll win. If it's just the local authorities trying their best to contain a bad situation, they're probably not interested in burning me and my house.

Fire seems to be a time-honored tradition in modern US LE scenarios. For Katrina bums robbing people of guns, I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

This wasn't a position that I'm advocating btw, it's just one that I see having the potential to win overall.

Actually, I wasn't refuting it at all. You provided some useful information to think about, and I thought I had critical analysis to strengthen it.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by ungawa

Yes, the two hours was referring specifically your 1-acre property and 3,000 square-foot house. Not off-property.



I can find any place anyone has ever dug on your 1-acre property, every place fill has been used, every place there is a small void in the soil, every place there is a metallic object, and every place there is a non-soil object in about 1 hour. If you are thinking about me walking around with a metal detector and digging up every signal, that's not what I am talking about. In 1 hour I can grid 1 acre with all technologies and then have it mapped in a computer. It will be pretty obvious where reasonable targets are buried with the combined mapping. This is without GPR or seismic, which can give pretty good pictures to discriminate targets later if needed.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I will rapidly heat or cool your house. I will see every stud, every pipe, every place insulation is missing, and almost every object behind a wall. I will mark them with spray paint. Electromag will be run simultaneously starting at the other side of the house and all anomalies marked with spray paint. GPR will be run simultaneously in the basement. Magnetometer and thermal will also be used on furniture.

We are not looking to preserve evidence, it's recovery. So this will not take days, only hours.

You are correct, you could successfully hide something. Just as you chose to point out some tactics, I wanted to point out counter-tactics. It's probably not as easy as you think. Knowing this, with a whole lot of decoys, your chances would increase substantially.



Fire seems to be a time-honored tradition in modern US LE scenarios. For Katrina bums robbing people of guns, I certainly wouldn't rule it out.



Actually, I wasn't refuting it at all. You provided some useful information to think about, and I thought I had critical analysis to strengthen it.

I find that all fascinating. I love technology.

If you were a specific target, then I'd expect the police to be able to find any guns you had on or around the property. As part of disarming an entire city, of course, that wouldn't happen. I think that in practice, were any PA politician unwise enough to order house-to-house total gun confiscation, then he would consider a 90% disarmament rate to be a success. Nobody would concentrate 50% of the total available jackbooted thug resources to get that last 10%, so any method of hiding the guns would probably work, from sticking them in the basement to hiding them in the dog's kibble.

Of course, any PA politician who did so would shortly thereafter cease to be a PA politician, either because he'd be mired in lawsuits, shunned by every political organization except ACORN and NAMBLA, or ducking the demonstrative incoming "messages" of his constituents.

Remember, if you directly stand up to bullies in uniform, then they will volunteer to make an example of you, for refusing to respect their au-thor-it-tay. If you make them go away at gunpoint, they will come back with all their other friends in uniform, and your bullet-riddled home will burn. They have enough people and guns to overwhelm any individual citizen (but not all of them, as has been proven periodically since 1776).

But if you bend like the willow, play stupid, deny owning any guns, and you're not leaning on an empty rifle rack while wearing an NRA hat as you talk to them, then I'd expect them to move on to oppress the next taxpayer. Turn over that old H&R top break, along with a 50-round box holding 44 cartridges and a holster and a cleaning kit. Then, after the emergency is over, you can join the class action suit, and maybe help elect a different sort of politician.

[Elmar]

Originally Posted by t1m0thy

I'm sure some of you have seen these videos, but I came across them the other day and it made me think...what would you do if the police showed up at your door and demanded your firearms? Would you comply or stand your ground? If you fought off the police with deadly force would you be within your rights since they were violating your rights? If a criminal comes after me to take my life or liberty I can shoot them but what happens when the criminals are the police? What should you do?

I have to say I would be hard pressed not to blockade my door and tell them if they step into my home I will use deadly force to protect my home, family, and property. Even though I do feel this way I admit when faced with this situation I am still uncertain of what exactly I would do.

What would you do?

Its not only what I would do but what everyone else in my house would do. I would wish for all parties involved that this would never happen but if it did the only thing I could be certain of is that there would be some dead oathbreakers on my property.

[NightRocker]

They have to put down their guns to carry out my Safe.