Important for Vets and others from VFW

[larrymeyer]

As a patriotic American, you should know about a battle underway that jeopardizes the very future of our nation’s war memorials.


In 1934, World War I veterans erected a simple memorial in the shape of a cross to honor 53,000 Americans who died in battle.


See the Mojave Desert War Memorial Cross.


This year, the U.S. Supreme Court will determine whether the cross violates the U.S. Constitution's separation of church and state. This is because the memorial resides on federal property in California's Mojave National Preserve.


More is at stake, however, than just the fate of a 7-foot-tall white cross currently covered with a plywood box by lower court order. The real issue behind Salazar v. Buono is whether the use of religious symbolism in veterans’ memorials on public property violates the Establishment Clause.


If the High Court rules in favor of the plaintiff,
every such memorial across the land could be torn down.


Sign the petition and let the Supreme Court know that veterans’ memorials deserve our protection!

http://www.donttearmedown.com/


Without memorials, our nation’s story cannot be told properly, and the service and sacrifice of more than one million Americans who have died in uniform will be forgotten.

[Morel42]

Originally Posted by larrymeyer

As a patriotic American, you should know about a battle underway that jeopardizes the very future of our nation’s war memorials.


In 1934, World War I veterans erected a simple memorial in the shape of a cross to honor 53,000 Americans who died in battle.


See the Mojave Desert War Memorial Cross.


This year, the U.S. Supreme Court will determine whether the cross violates the U.S. Constitution's separation of church and state. This is because the memorial resides on federal property in California's Mojave National Preserve.


More is at stake, however, than just the fate of a 7-foot-tall white cross currently covered with a plywood box by lower court order. The real issue behind Salazar v. Buono is whether the use of religious symbolism in veterans’ memorials on public property violates the Establishment Clause.


If the High Court rules in favor of the plaintiff,
every such memorial across the land could be torn down.


Sign the petition and let the Supreme Court know that veterans’ memorials deserve our protection!

http://www.donttearmedown.com/


Without memorials, our nation’s story cannot be told properly, and the service and sacrifice of more than one million Americans who have died in uniform will be forgotten.

Would the construction of a non-religious monument in it's place be an acceptable replacement if the this case is won?

[larrymeyer]

Originally Posted by Morel42

Would the construction of a non-religious monument in it's place be an acceptable replacement if the this case is won?

Not if you ask a VET every Cross, Star of David, and Half Moon would be taken out of Arlington, 300,000 dead soliders
and these other 20 cemetery
The American Cemetery at Ardennes, Belgium. A total of 5329 of our dead,
The American Cemetery at Brittany, France. A total of 4410 of our military dead,
Brookwood, England American Cemetery. A total of 468 of our dead, Cambridge, England. 3812 of our military dead,
Epinal, France American Cemetery. A total of 5525 of our Military dead, Flanders Field, Belgium. A total of 368 of our military,
Florence, Italy . A total of 4402 of our military dead,
Henri-Chapelle, Belgium. A total of 7992 of our military dead,
Lorraine, France. A total of 10,489 of our military dead, Luxembourg, Luxembourg. A total of 5076 of our military dead,
Meuse-Argonne. A total of 14246 of our military dead,
Netherlands, Netherlands. A total of 8301 of our military dead,
Normandy, France. A total of 9387 of our military dead,
Oise-Aisne, France. A total of 6012 of our military dead, Rhone,
France. A total of 861 of our military dead,
Sicily, Italy. A total of 7861 of our military dead,
Somme, France. A total of 1844 of our military dead,
St. Mihiel, France. A total of 4153 of our military dead,
Suresnes, France. A total of 1541 of our military dead,
The American Cemetery at Aisne-Marne, France. A total of 2289 of our military dead.

Point of interest the first soldier to be buried in Arlington was Private William Henry Christman of Pennsylvania on May 13, 1864.

Christman was a laborer from Lehigh County, Pennsylvania. He was enlisted in the United States Army on March 25, 1864. He was hospitalized for measles three weeks later. He was admitted to Lincoln General Hospital on May 1, and he died on May 11.He was interred in Arlington National Cemetery on May 13, 1864

[Wild Bill Klinton]

This why elections matter. A protest vote is just that.


WBK

[Philbert]

Originally Posted by larrymeyer

Not if you ask a VET every Cross, Star of David, and Half Moon would be taken out of Arlington, 300,000 dead soliders
and these other 20 cemetery

Religious symbols on individual grave markers are not in danger from this lawsuit. Individual graves can be decided by families. The problem in this lawsuit is collective memorials that are sponsored by the government and presumably represent people of all faiths.

I believe that there should be something akin to a statute of limitations in this matter. The memorial has historical value as well as personal significance to the families of those who built it. We probably would not permit a religious symbol in a monument to be built in the future, but it is churlish to retroactively tear down monuments that people have visited for years or decades to pay respect to the fallen.

[schr8er2000]

WHAT THE HELL HAS THIS COUNTRY BECOME......

Another reason that I can't and won't support the ACLU,..... a bunch of idiots that feel that the majority has no rights, only the single person. Like that idiot from Oregon... if it offends you that much, put on sunglasses, or take a different route. Next they will want to take all the crosses away from ALL graves because SOMEONE might not like it.... SCREW THEM.....

There is a cross on my fathers grave, and God help the person that tries to take it down... they will have ONE hell of a fight.......

That is if God would even help someone like that.... oh yeah.. MY God would.... he helps everyone no matter what....

I see one possible solution to this.. have private individuals BUY that section of land... and then they can do whatever they want on it......... I would gladly help out on that one....

[larrymeyer]

Originally Posted by Philbert

Religious symbols on individual grave markers are not in danger from this lawsuit. Individual graves can be decided by families. The problem in this lawsuit is collective memorials that are sponsored by the government and presumably represent people of all faiths.

I believe that there should be something akin to a statute of limitations in this matter. The memorial has historical value as well as personal significance to the families of those who built it. We probably would not permit a religious symbol in a monument to be built in the future, but it is churlish to retroactively tear down monuments that people have visited for years or decades to pay respect to the fallen.

Crosses etc are put up by the federal government at the families request. And the lawsuit deals with Federal Land. Which each of the cemeteries I mentioned are.

[Philbert]

Originally Posted by larrymeyer

Crosses etc are put up by the federal government at the families request. And the lawsuit deals with Federal Land. Which each of the cemeteries I mentioned are.

Yes, but the choice of a cross or whatever is made by the families. I think an individual's grave in a federally owned facility can show a religious symbol without creating an establishment of religion, as long as they don't discriminate against certain religions.

The monument in question is not an individual's grave. I think it should be left alone, but I don't think that this case will open a challenge to individual grave markers. It might well be a problem for similar large, non-personal monuments on government property.

ETA: Having read the court case, I have serious doubts about whether the structure in question is indeed a "war memorial" (please see my later posts).

[Morel42]

Originally Posted by Philbert

Religious symbols on individual grave markers are not in danger from this lawsuit. Individual graves can be decided by families. The problem in this lawsuit is collective memorials that are sponsored by the government and presumably represent people of all faiths.

I believe that there should be something akin to a statute of limitations in this matter. The memorial has historical value as well as personal significance to the families of those who built it. We probably would not permit a religious symbol in a monument to be built in the future, but it is churlish to retroactively tear down monuments that people have visited for years or decades to pay respect to the fallen.

An agreeable compromise..

[GHogHarvester]

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.”

- Jefferson

“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author. The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.”

- Thomas Paine

I have heard countless foxhole stories from WW-II reunions. God was there. Those that arrived with empty hearts soon found Him and carried Him home.

Once again, we disgrace rather than honor their sacrifice.