VA CCW list published by Roanoke Times 3/11

[coat4gun]

This could happen in PA if we do not watch out... with the stink being raised about more public access to government records... some government records should be kept from public eyes... records such as the illegal State Police firearm database... CCW records.... Medical records... etc. Public access can be a double edged sword.


Completely unconscionable.

Shedding light on concealed handguns

By Christian Trejbal
Christian Trejbal

Today is the start of Sunshine Week, the annual week in which we reflect on the importance of open government and public records. To mark the occasion, I want to take you on an excursion into freedom of information land. We're going to find out who in the New River Valley has a concealed handgun permit.

I can hear the shocked indignation of gun-toters already: It's nobody's business but mine if I want to pack heat.

Au contraire. Because the government handles the permitting, it is everyone's business.

There are good reasons the records are open to public scrutiny. People might like to know if their neighbors carry. Parents might like to know if a member of the car pool has a pistol in the glove box. Employers might like to know if employees are bringing weapons to the office.

And all Virginians have a stake in checking that their government is not making mistakes, for example, by issuing permits to convicted felons. Open records allow the media or any private citizen to check.

This is not about being for or against guns. There are plenty of reasons people choose to carry weapons: fear of a violent ex-lover, concern about criminals or worry that the king of England might try to get into your house. There are plenty of reasons to question the wisdom of widespread gun ownership, too.

But that's a debate for another time.

To illustrate the open government process, I set out to acquire permit lists for the New River Valley.

I first called the local circuit court clerks charged with overseeing permitting. They were helpful, as far as they could be.
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Only Radford and Floyd County said they could produce a list. Giles County maintains an unofficial list but could not produce an official one. Montgomery and Pulaski counties had squat. The best they could do is determine if a specific individual had a permit.

None of that conflicts with the law. The records must be available but not necessarily in the format citizens want.

Fortunately, one of the clerks tipped me off to another avenue. The state police, she thought, maintained a master list.

I called Richmond and found out that yes, they did have a statewide list. Bingo!

Then another lesson of open government hit. A copy would cost more than $100.

Any Virginian can show up at a government office and request a public document. If it is something simple such as a council agenda, officials usually gladly duplicate it, maybe charging a few cents for the photocopy.

If it is something more complicated, government agencies may charge for the time and effort to prepare the records. In the case of concealed handgun permits, state police need to weed through them to cut out some personal data, which takes staff time.

A state that eagerly puts sex offender data online complete with an interactive map could easily do the same with gun permits, but it does not.

I bit the bullet and placed my order, saving the paper a few bucks by taking a Jan. 18 list officials had recently prepared for someone else.

The compact disc arrived last week. Names, addresses, issue and expiration dates.

About 2 percent of Virginians, 135,789 of us, have concealed handgun permits. In the New River Valley, 3,826 people have them, a slightly higher rate than in the rest of the state.

I immediately started checking some names. Virginia Tech football coach Frank Beamer, no permit. Pulaski County Supervisor Dean Pratt, packing. Radford University President Penelope Kyle, no permit. Giles County Supervisor Paul "Chappy" Baker, packing.

Some of the names proved tricky. Dana Dwayne Munsey of Pembroke has a permit. Is that Mayor Munsey? Standoffish town officials wouldn't provide a middle name or address for confirmation, and the listed phone number is disconnected.

The list sports a dismayingly large number of typos for an official registry -- four different spellings of "Christiansburg," for example.

Local celebrities generally don't carry, but at least a half dozen elected officials do. I'll leave it to readers to figure out which ones so you can avoid annoying them at meetings.

As a Sunshine Week gift, The Roanoke Times has placed the entire database, mistakes and all, online at www.roanoke.com/gunpermits. You can search to find out if neighbors, carpool partners, elected officials or anyone else has permission to carry a gun.

Open government laws arose from distrust of government. They guarantee citizens can watch what government does in their names, including issuing gun permits.

Trejbal is an editorial writer for The Roanoke Times based in the New River Valley bureau in Christiansburg.

http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/108160

and the list is at:

http://www.roanoke.com/gunpermits/
__________________
http://www.flexyourrights.org/

[MarcS]

they took down the list.

If someone ever does this in PA, I'll be glad to chip in money for the private investigator so we can expose public information about the writer and editor of the paper it is published in, including, but not limited to.

-Name
-Address
-Phone Numbers
-Private e-mail
-Social Security number
-License plate number and vehicle description
-Name of spouse and where they work
-Name of and where their children attend school
-Criminal Record

We'll plaster it all over the internet and see how they like having their privacy violated.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by MarcS

they took down the list.

If someone ever does this in PA, I'll be glad to chip in money for the private investigator so we can expose public information about the writer and editor of the paper it is published in, including, but not limited to.

-Name
-Address
-Phone Numbers
-Private e-mail
-Social Security number
-License plate number and vehicle description
-Name of spouse and where they work
-Name of and where their children attend school
-Criminal Record

We'll plaster it all over the internet and see how they like having their privacy violated.

If someone did that in PA they would be in violation of the law.

[rev214]

didn't something like this "accidentally" happen last year in berks county?

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by rev214

didn't something like this "accidentally" happen last year in berks county?

Yes it did. Information can be found in these threads of discussion if necessary:

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/berks-26/...ks-county.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/berks-26/...d-permits.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/berks-26/...y-sheriff.html

[Emptymag]

This is not about being for or against guns. There are plenty of reasons people choose to carry weapons: fear of a violent ex-lover, concern about criminals or worry that the king of England might try to get into your house. There are plenty of reasons to question the wisdom of widespread gun ownership, too.

But that's a debate for another time.

What a crock.

He says "This is not about being for or against guns" and then he adds that smart-assed comment about the King of England, essentially labeling gun owners as paranoid nut-jobs.

The ignorance and ARROGANCE shown by this person makes my head spin.

This type of thing happened in Cleveland(?) a while back, except the list was PUBLISHED in the local NEWSPAPER. How F-ing mentally challenged can you be to do something like that?
Then again, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that someone like Mr. Trejbal would be OK with criminals learning the location of firearms that may be stolen without much effort as that would reinforce their crusade to ban all firearms. With more guns in the hands of criminals and more "gun crime", the sheep are easier to herd into the "sensible" gun law pasture.

[Frenchy]

first off, this post already existed on the board, Just an other of those 2 post things that happen when people dont keep up with things.

They may have taken down the list, or changed it in some way, but I was ablt to harvest the last 8000 names by date rank, the original story from here and print capture the original story from the paper and the blog there...
1 thing this proves is, if I was able to do this, and one was, 2 things this proves is there are 8k plus people in Virginia who would remain unsafe even if the newspaper completely took down this info and the government was to stop selling it out to just any one who asks for it. I suppose by now the info I gathered is in our Rockvilleoffices and 8000 people will be getting a letter explaining to them how their security was compromised. I cant imagine my harvesting these 8000 names from the top had any thing to do with them changing the way the web produces those names. They had to see there was a rapid flow in their list.

I suppose I could have held out for money before I gave our sales staff in Rockville the info, but the safety of these people outweighed my need for money. So I handed them the CD with all the info I had and said make sure the salesman reads it and understand it before he starts doing anything, 8000 solid leads is a gold mind to any salesman. This is a $120,000 lead! Imagine if they get the CD with all 100K names on it! To me, it was 6 hours less sleep; I worked my shift on 2 or less hours and had a pounding headache. But I was so frustrated these people‘s safety was compromised that I could not put words to it once I read the story. So I did what I think will best help them.

What I proposed to the home sales group was that they contact these people, and arrange a collective buy that would give them a discount. Then they can collectively see about getting compensation back from the newspaper and or the government that compromised their safety by publishing such private information. Some thing I believe our legal department could help with, but if not, any gun lawyer in that state. Don’t get me wrong, I realize the names can be had by any citizen, and often lists like these are sold by not only the government but private groups to make extra money. I suspect our Rockville office will attempt to buy the same CD as was mentioned in the story so that all 100,000 plus names on it are protected if they want to be.

I don’t suppose any one here could prove to me they sell automotive alarms? Or safes? How about a lawyer out there? If you can, and sell IN Virginia, You should be looking at what you can do to help these people… You should be looking into what you can do to help your fellow gun owners in need.

If you happen by one of these people some day, make sure they know we are concerned about them out here in PA. And that a fellow firearms lover is trying to help them out.

If you happen to be one of the people on the list, cal the Rockville office and tell them Bob from the Central in Pa sent you there. I am still trying to get a PAFOA discount for every one here, so don’t forget to mention you read this on PAFOA. Once Dan gets us settled and we are officially a .org I can see about meeting with the sales staff and try to get every one here a discount from Guardian.

For more info on alarm systems on this site, you can go to my commentaries at this link

[KeithPA]

Originally Posted by Emptymag

What a crock.

He says "This is not about being for or against guns" and then he adds that smart-assed comment about the King of England, essentially labeling gun owners as paranoid nut-jobs.

The ignorance and ARROGANCE shown by this person makes my head spin.

This type of thing happened in Cleveland(?) a while back, except the list was PUBLISHED in the local NEWSPAPER. How F-ing mentally challenged can you be to do something like that?
Then again, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that someone like Mr. Trejbal would be OK with criminals learning the location of firearms that may be stolen without much effort as that would reinforce their crusade to ban all firearms. With more guns in the hands of criminals and more "gun crime", the sheep are easier to herd into the "sensible" gun law pasture.

It's still there http://www.cleveland.com/concealed/

When OH UFA goes into effect (see thread in CCW section) then that information goes private again.

There's another thread I had started on this VA subject, in the CCW section.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by DeltaII5

It's still there http://www.cleveland.com/concealed/

When OH UFA goes into effect (see thread in CCW section) then that information goes private again.

There's another thread I had started on this VA subject, in the CCW section.

At least tha tone only has names, you can get names any where and there could be more then one Joe Blow, but how many Joe Blow live at 123 Ikno That Street, City and 12345 State

[Frenchy]

The Roanoke Times Removes Database of Handgun Permit Holders

//

March 12, 2007 — The Roanoke Times has decided to remove the online database of registered concealed handgun permit holders from its website.

The newspaper is requesting the Virginia State Police, which provided the information, verify the data.

“When we posted the information, we had every reason to believe that the data the State Police had supplied would comply with the statutes. But people have notified us that the list includes names that should not have been released,” said Debbie Meade, president and publisher of The Roanoke Times. “Out of a sense of caution and concern for the public we have decided to take the database off of our website.”

The database was posted on roanoke.com on Sunday as part of a New River Valley editorial page column about open records. This column, as well as others that will be published this week, is part of a special focus on Sunshine Week, a national initiative to raise awareness about open government and freedom of information.


http://blogs.roanoke.com/roundtable/...column_12.html