Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association

Go Back   Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Law & Politics > National

Notices

National Discuss National, firearm-related politics and organize communication with national representatives here.

PAFOA Sponsors Businesses that provide financial and technical support to PAFOA. PAFOA Shopping Partners A percentage of all sales made through these partner links goes to PAFOA.
Arms Dealer Logo

Arms Dealer — Free Firearm Classifieds, Gun Shop & Shooting Range Reviews

Arms Dealer is your one-stop shop for free firearm classifieds, gun shop & shooting range reviews.

Join today to start buying, selling and reviewing!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2012, 03:45 PM
Brick's Avatar
Grand Member
PAFOA Gold Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Apolacon Township, Pennsylvania
(Susquehanna County)
Age: 68
Posts: 3,716
Rep Power: 110272
Brick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

So what we really need is a President with enough brass to:

1) repudiate the Vienna Convention

2) repudiate the Arms Trade Treaty

Once these have been repudiated they no longer exist for our purposes.
__________________
Reply With Quote

Thanks for visiting our forum! If you ever plan to return you should consider quickly registering for a forum account, especially if you're in Pennsylvania. It's simple to do and best of all free. Once registered you'll be able to participate in our discussions and keep up to date on issues important to Pennsylvania firearm owners!

  #22 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2012, 04:21 PM
Hivelocity's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location:
NW PA, Pennsylvania
(Crawford County)
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 0
Hivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

August 1, 2012







Dear Mr.



Thank you for contacting me regarding a treaty on small arms being discussed in the United Nations. I greatly appreciate knowing your thoughts on this important issue.



This month, in a New York convention, the United Nations has been at work drafting a global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) that would create a global registry for the private ownership of firearms. On June 29th, I wrote a bi-partisan letter joined by 129 of my House colleagues to President Obama and Secretary Clinton which expressed my concerns that the proposed treaty infringes on our nation's fundamental, constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms.



I firmly believe that the Second Amendment of the Constitution prohibits the federal government from using any means to deny law-abiding citizens the right to own and bear arms. Gun control will merely punish law-abiding citizens, leaving them vulnerable to criminal attack. Our Founding Fathers considered this right paramount to the preservation of democracy, and steps should be taken to ensure that right is protected while preserving the safety of society.



Under the Constitution, the President has the power to make treaties with the consent of two-thirds of the Senate. Furthermore, a number of treaties are "non-self-executing treaties" meaning that they require implementation by both chambers of Congress – the Senate and the House of Representatives – before they can take effect as domestic law. Many treaties whose subject matter overlaps with Congress' lawmaking authority under Article I of the Constitution are non-self-executing treaties. Should implementing legislation for a small arms treaty be presented to the full of House of Representatives for a vote, I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind.



I value your input as I represent you here in Washington, and I am committed to addressing the needs and concerns of the Third District. I will do all I can at the federal level to pass legislation that is consistent with the U.S. Constitution and the moral values held by our Founding Fathers.



I encourage you to continue contacting me with your opinions on issues important to you.



If you would like to hear more from me on this issue and others, please subscribe to my newsletter at www.kelly.house.gov.






Sincerely,

Mike Kelly
Member of Congress
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2012, 04:23 PM
Hivelocity's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location:
NW PA, Pennsylvania
(Crawford County)
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 0
Hivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

August 3, 2012



Dear


Thank you for contacting me about the United Nations (U.N.) Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). As an opponent of this treaty, I appreciate hearing from you about this important issue.

Like many Pennsylvanians, I have long been a supporter of Second Amendment rights. They are of fundamental importance to our nation, and I believe that Americans have a personal, constitutional right to self-protection and to engage in recreational activities involving firearms. In fact, during my previous tenure in the House of Representatives (1999-2005), my record of supporting gun owners' rights earned me an "A" rating from the National Rifle Association.

That said, I understand and share your concerns about the ATT. As you may know, this treaty was created in 2006 by U.N. General Assembly Resolution A/RES/61/89. Its purpose is to create international standards for the arms trade. Like you, I am deeply concerned by this treaty because of its potential infringement on our right to keep and bear arms. You may be pleased to know that on July 22, 2011 I joined 44 of my Senate colleagues in sending a letter to President Obama and Secretary Clinton opposing ratification of the ATT. I also joined 50 of my colleagues on July 26, 2012 in sending another letter to President Obama and Secretary Clinton reaffirming my opposition to this treaty.

In addition, Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS) introduced S. 2205 on March 19, 2012. Among its provisions, this measure expresses the sense of Congress that U.S. sovereignty and the constitutionally protected freedoms of American gun owners must be upheld and not be undermined by the ATT. I am a cosponsor of S. 2205, which is currently pending before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Although I am not a member of this committee, please be assured that I will continue working with my Senate colleagues on advancing this legislation and protecting Second Amendment rights.

Thank you again for your correspondence. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future if I can be of assistance.


Sincerely,



Pat Toomey
U.S. Senator, Pennsylvania
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2012, 06:03 PM
Hivelocity's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location:
NW PA, Pennsylvania
(Crawford County)
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 0
Hivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond reputeHivelocity has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

These are two of the responses I received about the ATT.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Gman106's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location:
DELCO, Pennsylvania
(Delaware County)
Posts: 313
Rep Power: 215405
Gman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond reputeGman106 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivelocity View Post
These are two of the responses I received about the ATT.

Nice to see you received timely, detailed responses. I'm confident that ATT will be rejected by the Congress, but still want to settle the issue as to force of law regarding signed but unratified treaties.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old August 6th, 2012, 06:40 PM
Brick's Avatar
Grand Member
PAFOA Gold Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Apolacon Township, Pennsylvania
(Susquehanna County)
Age: 68
Posts: 3,716
Rep Power: 110272
Brick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivelocity View Post
These are two of the responses I received about the ATT.
But the response from Kelly is meaningless, since the House of Representatives has NO responsibilty in the ratification of treaties.

But fwiw Sen. Casey also opposed the ATT.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old August 6th, 2012, 08:13 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
SWPA, Pennsylvania
(Allegheny County)
Age: 38
Posts: 25
Rep Power: 0
Range32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Range32
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick View Post
But the response from Kelly is meaningless, since the House of Representatives has NO responsibilty in the ratification of treaties.
Does that mean that this portion of his letter of reply:

'Furthermore, a number of treaties are "non-self-executing treaties" meaning that they require implementation by both chambers of Congress – the Senate and the House of Representatives – before they can take effect as domestic law. Many treaties whose subject matter overlaps with Congress' lawmaking authority under Article I of the Constitution are non-self-executing treaties'

...was untrue? Or just that you don't think the ATT falls under the 'non-self-executing' type?
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old August 6th, 2012, 08:55 PM
RandomTask's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
State College-ish, Pennsylvania
(Centre County)
Age: 46
Posts: 1,945
Rep Power: 76543
RandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond reputeRandomTask has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemanvic View Post
Vienna, Geneva - it all European to me
Dr. Hasseldorf: Well, Gail, by this time the hostages should be going through the early stages of the Helsinki Syndrome.

News Anchor: As in Helsinki, Sweden.

Dr. Hasseldorf: Finland.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old August 7th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Brick's Avatar
Grand Member
PAFOA Gold Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Apolacon Township, Pennsylvania
(Susquehanna County)
Age: 68
Posts: 3,716
Rep Power: 110272
Brick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond reputeBrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Range32 View Post
Does that mean that this portion of his letter of reply:

'Furthermore, a number of treaties are "non-self-executing treaties" meaning that they require implementation by both chambers of Congress – the Senate and the House of Representatives – before they can take effect as domestic law. Many treaties whose subject matter overlaps with Congress' lawmaking authority under Article I of the Constitution are non-self-executing treaties'

...was untrue? Or just that you don't think the ATT falls under the 'non-self-executing' type?
A non-self-executing treaty is one that would require additional legislation to implement the means of abiding by the treaty.

For example the U.S. and Lower Slobbovia sign a "Non-Aggression Treaty". The treaty is refered to the Senate and is ratified by the required 2/3rds vote of the Senators present. The treaty is now in full effect, no further legislation is needed and remains so as long as the U.S. and Lower Slobbovia do not attack each other.

But, the ATT required additional legislation to fully implement it. Registration and licensing of arms manufacturers and a means of governmental approval for the export of all arms as an example. In this case the House of Representatives would have a hand in creating these new laws, but not have a hand in ratifying the treaty itself.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old August 7th, 2012, 05:31 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
SWPA, Pennsylvania
(Allegheny County)
Age: 38
Posts: 25
Rep Power: 0
Range32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond reputeRange32 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Range32
Default Re: US Senate does NOT have to vote on the UN Gun treaty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick View Post
But, the ATT required additional legislation to fully implement it. Registration and licensing of arms manufacturers and a means of governmental approval for the export of all arms as an example. In this case the House of Representatives would have a hand in creating these new laws, but not have a hand in ratifying the treaty itself.
Makes sense. Quite interesting...learn something new everyday. I figured something like this process would have to come into play, and that the simple signing wouldn't and couldn't just automatically 'change' things in the flick of a pen...it would take a lot of crap beyond that to implement this type of thing.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US Rep To UN Says Obama Wants Senate To Ratify Arms Treaty middlefinger National 19 October 28th, 2011 08:20 PM
LOST and Found: Senate Moves Toward Ratification of U.N.'s 'Law of the Sea Treaty' ThoughtCriminal General 0 March 12th, 2009 11:28 PM
Important Gun Vote In The Senate bogey1 General 0 February 24th, 2009 07:53 PM
Obama’s Global Tax Proposal Up for Senate Vote (PASSED ON VOICE VOTE) Slim Pickens General 29 February 25th, 2008 05:40 PM
Petition to U.S. Senate: Just Say “NO” to Sea Treaty Lambo General 4 November 14th, 2007 10:26 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Marketing Services provided by MergeMedia.
Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops