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  #1 (permalink)  
Old June 9th, 2010, 01:08 AM
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Default Limit on personal made guns

Hey guys I have a buddy who is interested in making ak47s and ar15 for personal use and not resale. He was talking about buying a few gun parts kits and some ak flats. I was told/read somewhere that their is a limit to one gun per year. I recall the Law stating you can only produce one firearm per person per year and if cought you could do as much as 10years per gun over the 1 gun per year limit. He said that no such law exist, that you can make as many firearms as you want long as you have no intent to sell. Is this true guys? Thanks Kyle
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Limit on personal made guns

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Originally Posted by Black Rock Trucks View Post
Hey guys I have a buddy who is interested in making ak47s and ar15 for personal use and not resale. He was talking about buying a few gun parts kits and some ak flats. I was told/read somewhere that their is a limit to one gun per year. I recall the Law stating you can only produce one firearm per person per year and if cought you could do as much as 10years per gun over the 1 gun per year limit. He said that no such law exist, that you can make as many firearms as you want long as you have no intent to sell. Is this true guys? Thanks Kyle
There's no set limit on how many you can manufacture for your own use, but if you make 10 per month and claim that you later decided to sell a few, then made some more, ATF and the court will not believe you.

If you make them and then keep them for years, and you're not a prohibited person, and they meet all Title I requirements and are lawful for civilian possession in your jurisdiction, you should be fine.

Still, there are traps. AK's in particular can't have more than 10 imported parts; there are barrel and overall length requirements. Your friend needs to be careful.

But no, there's no limit on how many you can make and keep under Federal law, or PA law.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Limit on personal made guns

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Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
Still, there are traps. AK's in particular can't have more than 10 imported parts;
Is that the case when the receiver is made in the US? Which would normally be the case for a person making one from a blank. I thought that only applied to AK's that had a foreign manufactured receiver. I could be wrong, never actually made an AK. I've mostly done 1911's from 80% frames when making my own firearms.

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But no, there's no limit on how many you can make and keep under Federal law, or PA law.
This of course is correct assuming things like barrel length and whatnot you mentioned above are within the legal limits.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Limit on personal made guns

USC title 18 section 922r regulates the manufacture and importation of "assault weapons" with evil features like bayo lugs, flash hiders, grenade attachment points, folding stocks, and pistol grips (too many drive by bayonettings and pistol grippings going on lately).

in short, any centerfire rifle with detatchable mag capacity over 10 rounds and having 2 or more of the listed evil features cannot contain more than 10 foreign made parts from a specific listing of named parts found in CFR 178.

an AK with threaded muzzle has 15 parts on the list, so should include at least 5 US made parts to be legal if manufactured (assembled by your buddy)after 1989. FNFAL have 16 parts on the list, so need 6 US parts. subgun conversions have 12-16 by the time they are re-rigged to semi-auto. firearms like 1919 and MG-42 belt feds (not designed to be shoulder fired) are not affected by the list. pistols (not designed to be shoulder fired) are not affected by the list. AR are damned near all US made, so not affected by the list.

make as many as you like in any given day for your own use. there is an ATF opinion letter out there requiring all homebuilt receivers (AK flats) to be serialised and manufacturer identified in accordance with the rules that apply to manufacturers before "entering the chain of interstate commerce" - being sold to someone else. it is a weak opinion, so often ignored, but i am not gonna be the test case.

send your friend to the AKFILES.com for more info about building AK than he could possibly want. then tell him to thank me for publishing instructions, jig design details, and dimensional targets for u-fold-em AK flats back in 2003. all subsequently produced comercial jigs are based on my design, which is public property.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Limit on personal made guns

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Originally Posted by MikeB0 View Post
Is that the case when the receiver is made in the US? Which would normally be the case for a person making one from a blank. I thought that only applied to AK's that had a foreign manufactured receiver. . . .
Yeah, the receiver is just another part. A US-made receiver helps with the domestic parts count, but it doesn't take the whole gun out of the requirement.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Limit on personal made guns

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Originally Posted by justashooter View Post

make as many as you like in any given day for your own use. there is an ATF opinion letter out there requiring all homebuilt receivers (AK flats) to be serialised and manufacturer identified in accordance with the rules that apply to manufacturers before "entering the chain of interstate commerce" - being sold to someone else. it is a weak opinion, so often ignored, but i am not gonna be the test case.
its not a "weak opinion letter" per se, its merely a opinion letter with no basis in law at all... this would be like the ATF saying also that all home made firearms must be painted "panther pink" before resale to anyone...

ATF doesn't make the law, ATF interprets it, but in this case, they pulled this letter straight out of their ass, due to no law existing to interpret for home made firearm.. the law SPECIFICALLY says licensed manufacturers or importers.

markings requirements only apply to licensed MFGs and importers, and makers of NFA firearms (either licensed or by Form 1 mfg) thus home made firearms for personal use need not be marked in any way... even if later sold after use, to another person.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Limit on personal made guns

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Originally Posted by JayBell View Post
its not a "weak opinion letter" per se, its merely a opinion letter with no basis in law at all... this would be like the ATF saying also that all home made firearms must be painted "panther pink" before resale to anyone...

ATF doesn't make the law, ATF interprets it, but in this case, they pulled this letter straight out of their ass, due to no law existing to interpret for home made firearm.. the law SPECIFICALLY says licensed manufacturers or importers.

markings requirements only apply to licensed MFGs and importers, and makers of NFA firearms (either licensed or by Form 1 mfg) thus home made firearms for personal use need not be marked in any way... even if later sold after use, to another person.
Right on, as always. Further, I'd argue that a home-manufacturer who acts like an FFL, by adding the markings that only an FFL has to use, will INCREASE his chances of getting into trouble for a few sales down the road.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Limit on personal made guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBell View Post
its not a "weak opinion letter" per se, its merely a opinion letter with no basis in law at all... this would be like the ATF saying also that all home made firearms must be painted "panther pink" before resale to anyone...

ATF doesn't make the law, ATF interprets it, but in this case, they pulled this letter straight out of their ass, due to no law existing to interpret for home made firearm.. the law SPECIFICALLY says licensed manufacturers or importers.

markings requirements only apply to licensed MFGs and importers, and makers of NFA firearms (either licensed or by Form 1 mfg) thus home made firearms for personal use need not be marked in any way... even if later sold after use, to another person.
To me, it seems that the ATF is attempting to illustrate a gray area within the law.
Insisting that homebuilders mark their build similarly to a manufacturer puts the homebuilder at risk.
It kinda seems like a set-up to me.

Since the law doesnt expressly state to do it ... I wouldn't.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Limit on personal made guns

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Originally Posted by Little Cloud View Post
To me, it seems that the ATF is attempting to illustrate a gray area within the law.
Insisting that homebuilders mark their build similarly to a manufacturer puts the homebuilder at risk.
It kinda seems like a set-up to me.

Since the law doesnt expressly state to do it ... I wouldn't.
exactly right... whats next?

ATF Opinion letter #267733564421

"All home built firearms must come with a roast beef sandwich when transferred..."
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Old June 9th, 2010, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Limit on personal made guns

Thanks alot guys for all the great info!! Now the worst part, me admitting im wrong. . . .damnit!! hate it when that happens lol. Thanks again guys!! Kyle
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