Hunting Regulations?

[TrailKeeper12]

Another question. Are the stands on a 'Red Tag' property? The PGC has a program for farmers that allows them to give doe tags to hunters but the Red Tags can only be used AFTER the regular deer season is over.

Could the people using the stands be standing up facing the tree and looking around it while using it for cover? Sort of like Peek-A-Boo with your kids?

I think I would politely ask the landowner if he knows the stands are there.
Better than getting everyone ticked off by sneaking around getting pictures of what you think is illegal activity.

Dale

Doubt it, because it's not a farm...

Also, I've already placed two motion activated cameras and a time-lapse camera watching the area from inside the park boundary. I'm about to go now and check the log to make sure they're working and see whats been going on (if anything).

[dk99358]

OK, I did some digging. I found the microwave towers on aerial photos, and looked at the park map. I see lots of private ground, several farm fields, and what is probably rows of trees growing at a nursery. Plus, I think there's a farm market at the corner of New Galena and Rt 313.

All that leads me right back to the Red Tag program. That, plus poachers wouldn't bother with tree stands and a fixed location. Think about it, would you poach a deer in one spot, leave your tree stand and then come back to that spot for another deer?

Dale

[TrailKeeper12]

OK, I did some digging. I found the microwave towers on aerial photos, and looked at the park map. I see lots of private ground, several farm fields, and what is probably rows of trees growing at a nursery. Plus, I think there's a farm market at the corner of New Galena and Rt 313.

All that leads me right back to the Red Tag program. That, plus poachers wouldn't bother with tree stands and a fixed location.

That might explain why they're hunting out of season, but that hardly satisfies me. Is there any way I can find out who might be operating a Red Tag program in the area?

Think about it, would you poach a deer in one spot, leave your tree stand and then come back to that spot for another deer?

Dale

I wouldn't poach period, but these people are obviously not the best and brightest. They've got at least six stands set up, some in the firing line of others, they litter profusely, and blatantly disregard the safety of everyone else around.

Also, when I went to check on my cameras today I found two additional tree stands that are with-in 150 yards of three different houses, and a third mounted onto the opposite side of a tree from the "Bucks County Park Property" sign (ie. the stand is in the park).

I wonder if anyone can tell me if it's legal to hunt deer with a Remington 12 gauge firing copper solids? I looked at the game code, but it's like Greek to me.

[Gun Bowanna]

I don't know the area, But,

Coyote hunting maybe.

Tree stands, no-one there during the day,

Just saying, Maybe.

[dk99358]

That might explain why they're hunting out of season, but that hardly satisfies me. Is there any way I can find out who might be operating a Red Tag program in the area?

If it is a Red Tag farm, they are NOT out of season. This is from the PGC website:

The Bureau of Law Enforcement administers the Agricultural Deer Control (Red Tag) Program. It falls under Title 58, 147.553, of the Pennsylvania Code. It is a special permit for deer control related to agricultural depredation. Applications for deer control permits under this program are made through the district wildlife conservation officer on a form provided by the Commission. Applications are only accepted from persons who have been enrolled in one of the Commission cooperative public access programs (Farm Game Project or Safety Zone) for a minimum of two years and are currently enrolled in the program, except in Wildlife Management Units 5C and 5D.

An Agricultural Deer Control (Red Tag) permit authorizes the permittee to enlist the aid of a limited number of subpermits, who are qualified individuals of the permittee’s choosing for the purpose of removing deer from the permittee’s property by shooting. A permittee may not issue more than one subpermit to a person to take deer on the permittee’s land enrolled in the Agricultural Deer Control (Red Tag) Program.

The permit is valid from February 1 to September 28 each calendar year, excluding Sundays, during the hours of dawn to dusk only. The permit is not valid from May 16 to June 30. Only antlerless deer may be taken under this program.

Land where permits are issued must post deer control permit signs provided by the Commission on the boundary of and along all public roadways traversing the property by the landowner/cooperator on all contiguous acres of the farm under agreement.

The permittee must report, on a form provided by the Commission, the number of deer killed and other information the Commission deems necessary. The completed report must be submitted to the district wildlife conservation officer within five days after the end of each month while the permit is valid. If no deer are killed, a negative report should be submitted.

Landowners interested in participating in the Agricultural Deer Control (Red Tag) Program must call the Game Commission Region Office serving the county in which the land to enrolled is located.


Also, you should know that farmers, immediate family, and IIRC, employees, can shoot deer year round, 24 hours a day for crop damage. This situation could be that too.

I wouldn't poach period, but these people are obviously not the best and brightest. They've got at least six stands set up, some in the firing line of others, they litter profusely, and blatantly disregard the safety of everyone else around.

Seems to me you're assuming a lot and being quite judgemental. It could be one guy hunting different stands depending on the wind, sun, time etc. And you don't know a single thing about how safe they are, hell you don't even know which way they are shooting. They could be waiting for the deer to leave the park and shooting them after they pass the tree stand.

Also, when I went to check on my cameras today I found two additional tree stands that are with-in 150 yards of three different houses, and a third mounted onto the opposite side of a tree from the "Bucks County Park Property" sign (ie. the stand is in the park).

I wonder if anyone can tell me if it's legal to hunt deer with a Remington 12 gauge firing copper solids? I looked at the game code, but it's like Greek to me.

BillD62 answered this part very well. My comment is that you said you hunt. How can you hunt and not have at least a passing knowledge of the regulations? The more you post, the more I think you are a neighborhood hiker who doesn't like the fact that someone is hunting/shooting near what you consider 'your' territory. You're not a troll but you don't seem to like the answers you are getting.

Dale

[TrailKeeper12]

If it is a Red Tag farm, they are NOT out of season. This is from the PGC website:

The Bureau of Law Enforcement administers the Agricultural Deer Control (Red Tag) Program. It falls under Title 58, 147.553, of the Pennsylvania Code. It is a special permit for deer control related to agricultural depredation. Applications for deer control permits under this program are made through the district wildlife conservation officer on a form provided by the Commission. Applications are only accepted from persons who have been enrolled in one of the Commission cooperative public access programs (Farm Game Project or Safety Zone) for a minimum of two years and are currently enrolled in the program, except in Wildlife Management Units 5C and 5D.

An Agricultural Deer Control (Red Tag) permit authorizes the permittee to enlist the aid of a limited number of subpermits, who are qualified individuals of the permittee’s choosing for the purpose of removing deer from the permittee’s property by shooting. A permittee may not issue more than one subpermit to a person to take deer on the permittee’s land enrolled in the Agricultural Deer Control (Red Tag) Program.

The permit is valid from February 1 to September 28 each calendar year, excluding Sundays, during the hours of dawn to dusk only. The permit is not valid from May 16 to June 30. Only antlerless deer may be taken under this program.

Land where permits are issued must post deer control permit signs provided by the Commission on the boundary of and along all public roadways traversing the property by the landowner/cooperator on all contiguous acres of the farm under agreement.

The permittee must report, on a form provided by the Commission, the number of deer killed and other information the Commission deems necessary. The completed report must be submitted to the district wildlife conservation officer within five days after the end of each month while the permit is valid. If no deer are killed, a negative report should be submitted.

Landowners interested in participating in the Agricultural Deer Control (Red Tag) Program must call the Game Commission Region Office serving the county in which the land to enrolled is located.


Also, you should know that farmers, immediate family, and IIRC, employees, can shoot deer year round, 24 hours a day for crop damage. This situation could be that too.




Seems to me you're assuming a lot and being quite judgemental. It could be one guy hunting different stands depending on the wind, sun, time etc. And you don't know a single thing about how safe they are, hell you don't even know which way they are shooting. They could be waiting for the deer to leave the park and shooting them after they pass the tree stand.



BillD62 answered this part very well. My comment is that you said you hunt. How can you hunt and not have at least a passing knowledge of the regulations? The more you post, the more I think you are a neighborhood hiker who doesn't like the fact that someone is hunting/shooting near what you consider 'your' territory. You're not a troll but you don't seem to like the answers you are getting.

Dale

The reason I don't know the hunting regs in PA is that I don't hunt in this state. And you're right that I don't like the answers that I'm getting, but that's why I am here. You guys are providing me with excellent opposing viewpoint. I am obviously biased against these guys and you guys are naturally biased towards supporting a hunter. You've already disabused me of some of my more ignorant notions, but I think I'm doing the right thing. As I said previously, if I can't find any evidence of illegal/unsafe behavior, then the most I'll do is find out who it is and remind them of the risks of certain firing lines. Is that unfair of me?

[TrailKeeper12]

You call this a protected wildlife area surrounded by houses and developments but the satellite images show a different picture. There appears to be farmland all around the park.

I'm not sure you're looking at the right area. The properties that border the area in question are as follows:
1. The Shrine of Częstochowa: No hunting or firearms allowed.
2. Stables owned by people I know: Old school hippies, no hunting or firearms allowed.
3. Microwave transmission towers and field of unknown ownership
4. Four different privately owned houses.

The farms you mention are up the hill on the other side of the lake...

As a hunter yourself, why you would assume there would be no hunting near by because there are no pets, horses or bikes allowed? It seems to me you just do not like the fact someone was hunting there.

Just because I hunt doesn't make me a hunter. And that assumption isn't one that only I made. All of my colleagues at the park and fellow trailkeepers were as surprised as I was...

[TrailKeeper12]

It seems to me that you change or add details as time goes by to make your position look better. Your first reference to the surrounding area was that it was developments and houses, then it was land owned by Verizon (you think), now there is a shrine and stables.

If you are hiking near the shrine you are not on park land, at least not according to the park map and Map quest, the park boundary is creek rd in that area and there are no trails.

First I was speaking of the park in general, then I specified to the area in question.

I am not biased towards potential poachers, I would be quite biased against them if there was some real proof of poaching. You made some accusations of poaching and/or hunters using poor judgment with zero proof. You even question the intelligence of the hunters without ever seeing them do anything, basing your assumptions upon things that anyone who ever hunted anywhere would laugh at.

If they are poaching they should be punished, period.

I guess you would close Marsh Creek State Park to hunting since hunting is allowed in most areas and trails go all through those areas. I fear that if too many people had the same mindset as you we would have far fewer places to hunt if any.

Bill

That's why I am here, to get the "hunters' perspective". I wouldn't close down known hunting areas, but I have concerns about this activity which (at least to me) are valid.

My first thought was to tear down their stands, post signs, and lobby for prosecution. Obviously, I decided not to follow that line and to get differing viewpoints and information. I'm not expecting you guys to agree with me, and I'm not perfect (I would obviously love for you guys to agree with me, but that's not why I'm here). As I said before, you're all helping me immensely and the eventual outcome will be better for all involved thanks to your help.

I'm probably not going to post again until I have some results from my surveillance, because I'm sensing some agitation. Thanks again.

[edsollen]

Bill, thanks for putting my thoughts into words.

[Triegle]

Ooookay so I have read all 5 pages of this, and here is what I think.


1. Are you sure it legal to be posting those cameras out there, and playing detective?
2. You already reported this to the property LE officals and they see nothing wrong so you should probably let it go.
3. If you hand delivered a letter to me while I am trying to hunt to "remind" me to be safe i might smack you upside the head to remind you that I know damn well what I am doing.
4. Mind your own business

Conclusion: anti-hunter or just self entitled dudley do right.

You have heard from a ton of different people who ARE NOT BIASED towards hunters. I HATE poachers, and i believe if they were in fact poaching there would be proof... however since you dont even know the game laws I am not sure how you would even know what is considered "poaching".

Hope you get the answer you want, but i doubt you will

Tim