cap and ball to cartridge conversion

[col.klink]

So I have a 1851 navy model tight now. I bought it not workin for 50 bucks and I ordered a few parts and fit them and got it shooting again. I've always liked the old west and cowboy guns and ever since seeing josey Wales I've wanted a colt walker. Now cap and ball is fine and fun and all but it's definitely a chore. Right now I'm debating on buyin a colt walker or a dragoon (made by uberti) but I'm also thing about buying a krist conversion for either one to shoot 45 colt. I would get the one with the loading gate of course. My question is has any one ever done this conversion one here? Do I have the option of going back to cap and ball? And what all is involved? Just milling out a spot for the loading gate or is there more ro it? And am I going to have to get my pistol registered after I convert it to shoot cartridges? Thanks in advance

[Grey Bearded One]

And am I going to have to get my pistol registered after I convert it to shoot cartridges? Thanks in advance

There is no registration in Pennsylvania. If a gunsmith does it, you would have to do a 4473, etc. because it is now a "firearm." On the other hand, you are allowed to make guns for your own use without any paperwork, providing they are not NFA guns.

[knight0334]

Once you convert it to use cartridges it becomes a "firearm", both under federal and PA laws.

Also - for a gunsmith to do it he would have to have a manufacturer's FFL. ...which really isn't all that common with smiths or regular dealers.

Another thing to consider - that gun will forever be a "firearm" from that day on out even if you convert it back. So subsequent sales would require a proper transfer, which you would have to explain why to any FFL/sheriff that facilitates the transfer.

For the price of those conversion kits you can buy a replica Single Action Army type gun and avoid all the hassles.

[col.klink]

So basically if I do the conversion myself paperwork is not needed? And i kno the kits are expensive but everyone has saa's when was the last time you seen someone shooting 45 colts out of a walker or dragoon?

[knight0334]

Correct - if you do the work no paperwork is required.

You can legally turn a block of steel into a gun if you want without paperwork.

[col.klink]

Thanks for the info there guys. Has any one on here actually done a conversion like this thier self?

[caferacer]

first thing IGNORE all the incorrect information you have been given on this thread so far,
NO you do not need to register it (that info was good)
NO it does not become a firearm after you convert it
WHY??? because it is black powder, it will ALWAYS be black powder, and you can NEVER EVER under ANY circumstances fire ANYTHING but black powder (or approved black powder substitutes,) out of it, EVER!!!!!!!! the cartridge conversions ONLY allow you to fire BLACK POWDER cartridges!!!
NOT SMOKELESS CARTRIDGES!!!! the gun WILL BLOW APART IN YOUR HANDS AND KILL YOU OR OTHERS SHOOTING NEXT TO YOU!!!!!!!!!! this is no joke
also the .36 navy cap and ball revolver uses a .375 projectile, if you convert it to .38 you need to replace or reline the barrel as a 38 fires a 357 projectile,
the .44 cap and ball revolvers use standard .45 cal .452 projectiles, so they are the best option for conversion,
the 1858 Remington, both Uberti and Pietta can be converted with the simple swap of a Kirst conversion cylinder, as can the Ruger old army,
Uberti also makes an open top 1872 revolver, and a "man with no name" revolver, both are safe to shoot modern smokeless 38spl ammo out of

[MasonArmsGunsmithing]

These kits are fairly simple to install, except for cutting out for the loading gate. Since the frames are hardened they are very hard to cut through. If you have access to a mill it can be easier if you also have the right tooling. Some people use files to cut the recess out but you have to start with stoning because a file will just skip right off of the hardened surface. Also you have to keep in mind that when your are all done you will have a cut out that is now in the white and can easily rust if you don't finish it in some way.

[col.klink]

Thanks for the help. I work in a machine shop so I've got the mill covered and I've cold blued a few shotguns with pretty good results. I've also heard that you can fire modern loads from the conversions. Just not +p ammo. I roll my own so od be loading light for the sake of the gun. But like I said I was planning on converting a walker. If they could handle 60 grains of black powder in 1847 (for the most part lol) I think a new conversion with better steel and manufacturing processes they could surely handle an average 45 colt load. I'll have to definitely do some research on loading for a conversation

[AR_George]

Thanks for the help. I work in a machine shop so I've got the mill covered and I've cold blued a few shotguns with pretty good results. I've also heard that you can fire modern loads from the conversions. Just not +p ammo. I roll my own so od be loading light for the sake of the gun. But like I said I was planning on converting a walker. If they could handle 60 grains of black powder in 1847 (for the most part lol) I think a new conversion with better steel and manufacturing processes they could surely handle an average 45 colt load. I'll have to definitely do some research on loading for a conversation

I have a Pietta 1858 New Army with a 45 Colt conversion cylinder, and I shoot standard factory loads in it with no problems.

IIRC the SAAMI pressure spec. for the 45 Colt cartridge is only about 14,000 psi, or something like that, and modern conversion cylinders are usually made of 4140 or 4150 steel, so the "weak point" - if there is one - would be the frame, IMO. (And this shouldn't be a problem unless you were to shoot lots of +p loads, in which case you might eventually damage the frame).

My conversion cylinder is just the drop in type so I didn't have to machine the frame, but I can't imagine that the frame would be hardened in these BP revolvers, because, after all, some of them have a brass frame.