Anyone willing to start a group buy for AR lowers?

[Robert Kayland]

Originally Posted by larry0071

I have no clue what your talking about, but here is what was posted for prices:

So to me, thats $112 each plus sales tax and whatever the pics charge is at your local FFL.

Isn't there a transfer fee going through an FFL? I'm not talking the usual PICS check that they do when you buy a gun from their stock, I'm talking about the more expense transfer fee that FFLs charge when doing a transfer on a sale between parties other than themselves, which this AR lower purchase would be.

I know private individuals don't have to go through PICS on a rifle sale, but doesn't the FFL have to "take into inventory" (even if just temporarily through technicality of paperwork), and call into PICS... and therefore, he charges THAT fee for the call, plus an additional transfer fee to the buyer... otherwise what's his motivation to go through the hassle of the transaction, with no profit? Unlike when the FFL sells something from his own stock, at which point the "transfer fee" is really only the PICS check.

Also, I saw no pricing information on the website... I see now that a previous post mentions the $105, but I wasn't sure if that was a done deal or not, because another poster after that mentioned he never got an order he had put in... and a previous group buy attempt at lowers wound up dying on the vine too.

If I'm wrong about the FFL charging a transfer fee, then great... but the local shop I talked to wanted one (and he charges a hefty $50 transfer fee, including $10 on the PICS check... the 'normal' range from most other FFL's I deal with is more like $25 transfer fee and $2 PICS check, but then I have to travel about an hour round trip).

[larry0071]

There is a thread about an adult parent buying a gun with a 12 year old childs money.... and why it is illegal. Please don't let this thread turn into a legal dispute... oh please...oh please...oh please don't let it!

Go edit that question and statement out, or your going to (More than likely) kick a hornets nest! You'll have 15 guys screaming at how illegal it is, they will recite legal doctrines at you, and burn a cross in your front yard. Just avoid the whole thing... this advise is free!

Yes, you do have to pay the insta-check fee at your FFL. Leave it at that...LOL!

[Robert Kayland]

Originally Posted by larry0071

There is a thread about an adult parent buying a gun with a 12 year old childs money.... and why it is illegal. Please don't let this thread turn into a legal dispute... oh please...oh please...oh please don't let it!

Go edit that question and statement out, or your going to (More than likely) kick a hornets nest! You'll have 15 guys screaming at how illegal it is, they will recite legal doctrines at you, and burn a cross in your front yard. Just avoid the whole thing... this advise is free!

Yes, you do have to pay the insta-check fee at your FFL. Leave it at that...LOL!

Well, I'll take your advice and drop the legal issue question... if only to keep this group buy thread on track, on the chance it actually does come off.

But the other (and perhaps more salient) point was, won't you have to pay the FFL more than merely the PICS fee... he's going to want a transfer fee too, otherwise where's his profit for all the paperwork and his time?

Like I say, if I'm wrong and somebody has an FFL who will take shipment of the order and only charge the PICS fee and tax on top of the previously-stated $105 + $7 shipping, then please let me know.

[larry0071]

I recently purchased a Rock River lower/parts kit and had it shipped to an FFL local to me. The original dealer charged me for the parts, tax and shipping. At my FFL I paid his standard $25 insta-check fee. Done.

That is what you will expect.... be it that you order 1 lower or 4 lowers... you will pay the fee for the PICS or insta-check one time to pick up your order.

[Robert Kayland]

Originally Posted by larry0071

I recently purchased a Rock River lower/parts kit and had it shipped to an FFL local to me. The original dealer charged me for the parts, tax and shipping. At my FFL I paid his standard $25 insta-check fee. Done.

That is what you will expect.... be it that you order 1 lower or 4 lowers... you will pay the fee for the PICS or insta-check one time to pick up your order.

Okay, let's keep our semantics straight.

A normal PICS fee is anywhere from $2 (Cabelas) to $10 (or perhaps more, depending upon your FFL), IN ADDITION TO any purchase of a gun from the stock of a given dealer.

But a dealer's charge for a transfer (that is, you don't buy the gun from his inventory) is usually $25 to $50 (or perhaps more, again, depending upon your FFL).

So when I say "transfer fee", it could be A PORTION of that transfer fee is calculated by the FFL to be the actual PICS check, but it's not the "insta-check" fee... because that PICS fee, in and of itself, isn't the transfer fee... the transfer fee is what the dealer charges you for the PICS call AND for his doing the paperwork and all things related when the stock isn't coming from his inventory, since he's not making any profit otherwise.

My initial post mentioned that one would have to add $25 to $50 cost to each lower when having the maker ship them to one's chosen FFL...

So I don't understand why you then said "I have no clue what you're talking about..." in a previous post, because as you now admit yourself, your final cost (from your particular FFL) was the cost of the parts that you paid to the maker, PLUS the transfer fee charged by your dealer.

In this case, if you buy one lower, you're paying (if the quoted price holds up) $105 + $7 + $25... and applicable taxes, if any.

Now, if you have a nice FFL who knows you well and will only charge one transfer fee for multiple lowers shipped to him, it cuts the cost by ordering multiples obviously... but I'm not sure many will do that.

Just because he only has to make one PICS call which "counts" for all the items being purchased, that doesn't mean he won't charge a transfer fee for each piece... especially if he has to fill out separate paperwork for each piece (that later gets sent into the state giving the specific items and serial numbers). I don't know if he has too fill out a separate sheet for each piece, but the principle of PER FIREARM fees may be one he adheres to.

One charge for a PICS call, regardless of the number of guns bought at the time, that I understand...

But the PICS call isn't the sole portion of a transfer fee that FFLs charge when somebody is buying something not from their stock...

Therefore, that $105 lower could wind up costing $137 (or more, depending upon the transfer fee charged by the FFL)... which was what my original post mentioned (before I deleted it to avoid getting the thread sidetracked by the legal issue of buying privately from someone who made multiple purchases of these lowers and went through his FFL).

Rather than speculating further, how about we call around and ask what will be charged by various FFLs for multiple lowers shipped to them from the maker (who I assume is an FFL himself). I'll report back from one or two dealers I'll call as soon as I find out.

[Robert Kayland]

I just got off the phone with Cabelas and my original assumption was correct:

Fee for transfer of a firearm(s) between individual parties = $25 PER FIREARM + one time $2 PICS check which covers all the firearms transferred at that moment.

NOTE THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE WHEN YOU BUY A GUN FROM THEM... in that case they only charge the $2 PICS fee... as well as the cost of the firearm, plus tax, of course.

So for the sake of this example, if you bought 3 lowers, you wouldn't be paying $105 * 3 + shipping + $27... you'd be paying $105 * 3 + shipping + $2 + $25 * 3... hence, each lower was actually costing $130 (plus whatever extra the shipping and $2 divided by 3 amounted to).

I called a local dealer (strictly Mom and Pop gun shop, no socks/boots/novelties) who usually gets $60 for a transfer ($10 of which is the PICS fee)... again, he said it was a per firearm charge on the transfer, with the PICS fee being a one-time charge.

He did mention that since I was a steady customer he would cut me some slack on multiple transfers and not charge the entire $50 for each additional one, just a portion... but he doesn't really like 'transfer business', since there's no real profit and his FFL license is the one bearing the burden of the transaction... and I can understand that.

So like I say, maybe if you have a nice FFL who you give a lot of business to, he won't charge the full amount of transfer fee that he usually does.

But the transfer fee is definitely an above-and-beyond charge on top of the actual PICS fee. And if the FFL doesn't know you from Adam, you will be paying that transfer fee PER item, because that's his only source of revenue from the transaction.

[Robert Kayland]

Anyway...

If this deal is still a definite, with a set price and relatively definite delivery date, let me know... because I'll be in for several and I know a dealer or two who may also be interested in getting some.

But only if it's "set"... we don't want another aborted mission, like a previous AR lower group buy thread wound up.

[o1dakota440]

i just got off the phone with pam, from this company. i called to see when they would ship if we made a large order and to get prices one their lowers and uppers. she started to give me a price for 100 or more and then asked if i were a ffl. i said no but would be able to get an ffl to make the order. she then told after i get ahold of him and have him send a fax of his ffl, she could work with me on prices.

[forceinPA]

What the hell happend to this thread. Its simple 105 plus 6.30 for tax and 7.00 to ship for a total of 118.30 . If I do the transfer its an extra 5.00 on top of that. If your dealer charges you 25 per gun or 10 or 5 that also will be extra. If they charge per lower find another dealer, they are ripping you off. The PICS is mandatory per PSP. the fee is for a taxable gun that is registered by the dealer. ALL dealers are charged 5 for the 1st firearm and an extra 2 bucks if you buy more than one so 2-7.00 3-9.00 4-11.00 . You see how this works. If you want a group buy on billet lowers that they have in stock they will be 225 each plus tax and transfer. I have one , they are very nice , but at a higher price. If you cant wait dont buy one. I am sure this company will ship within a month or two. BE patient

[Robert Kayland]

Originally Posted by forceinPA

What the hell happend to this thread. Its simple 105 plus 6.30 for tax and 7.00 to ship for a total of 118.30 . If I do the transfer its an extra 5.00 on top of that.

Well, it's not that simple because, as you see by the above, it's a matter of getting the order shipped to another FFL if someone can't pick them up from you. Which I imagine might be quite a few of us here. And shipping to another FFL will entail the additional cost of the standard PICS fee plus a per-firearm transfer fee, since the merchandise isn't from this FFL's stock, and all he'll be making money on is his time and trouble for the paperwork.

If your dealer charges you 25 per gun or 10 or 5 that also will be extra.

That's been my point all along.

If they charge per lower find another dealer, they are ripping you off.

If they already had the lowers in stock as part of their inventory, then you're right, it would be a rip-off...

But that's not the case we're talking about here...

We're talking about somebody asking their FFL to accept a shipment from somebody else (namely you or your source), in which their FFL will only be making money on the transfer fee, not the item itself. That's why a transfer fee will be something like $25 to $50 at most FFLs when individuals are selling things amongst themselves and not buying from dealer stock... whereas the fee charged when buying from dealer stock is merely the PICS check fee... usually only a few dollars.

Although we may not like it... as you see from previous posts, it's pretty much standard by most FFL's to have a per firearm transfer fee ON ITEMS FOR WHICH THEY'RE MERELY DOING THE TRANSFER, NOT SELLING THEIR OWN STOCK... because the FFL to which the firearm is sent otherwise makes nothing on the transaction... so, unless said FFL is a friend or you have established a relationship with him as a good customer, why should he NOT charge per firearm, since the transfer is the only way he's making a bit of money for his time and trouble on the paperwork?

Note I say "transfer fee"... it's already been clearly established that the PICS check (which is not the "transfer fee") is a one-time fee, regardless of how many are purchased.

The PICS is mandatory per PSP. the fee is for a taxable gun that is registered by the dealer. ALL dealers are charged 5 for the 1st firearm and an extra 2 bucks if you buy more than one so 2-7.00 3-9.00 4-11.00 . You see how this works.

Yes, we already know that any purchase through an FFL of these lowers requires a PICS check... that's never been disputed. And the PICS fee has already been explained and is now clear that THAT fee is a one-time charge, no matter how many firearms are purchased at that given transaction with the given FFL.

If you want a group buy on billet lowers that they have in stock they will be 225 each plus tax and transfer.

Eh, I don't think anyone is interested at that price... this thread is supposed to be for a group by at whatever the current "wait time" price is, with the understanding that there will be a waiting period... but even if said period is two or even three months, we want to make sure the order will be a definite go and delivery at whatever the wait time is quoted... because a previous group buy thread on this forum on lowers fell through at the last minute when the promised delivery date wasn't met, and many were disappointed and had to wait to get their money back.

I have one , they are very nice , but at a higher price. If you cant wait dont buy one. I am sure this company will ship within a month or two. BE patient

Eh, waiting is the plan... but on a side note, don't say in one sentence, "if you want a group buy on what they have in stock, it will be $225..." and then in the next sentence say "If you can't wait, don't buy one." It makes you look a bit disorganized and churlish.

Honestly, this shouldn't be so difficult... a simple question of TRUE current price (since prices can change week-by-week and also depend on the final order amount, I'm assuming) and delivery date... even if the delivery date is three months from now, we're just looking for something that will be definite at the quoted price and with a specific delivery date (doesn't have to be an exact day, merely within a given week or so, even if it's three months in the future).

So, inquiring minds still want to know what the final story is... are you taking orders now at the listed price of $105+$7+$6.30 per lower, and do you want payment in advance for delivery in "one to two months"? Or will you simply notify us when they have arrived, and we come and pick them up and pay at that time?

Lebanon is close enough for me to come pick them up directly from your shop and just pay the PICS check fee... saving any additional shipping or transfer fees.

But anyone who wants to order and will then need YOU (or the maker?) to ship them to their FFL should be made aware of the extra cost that their FFL will charge, since it is a transfer in his eyes, and not a sale coming from his own stock.