Gun Control

[secretbard]

You want to read a good book about what happens when the extreme of gun control takes hold, pick up "Enemies, Foreign and Domestic". I just started reading the book and it occurs to me that this too could have been our fate if congress had passed an emergency measure shortly after the VA Tech shooting. Here's the link to the book...

http://www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/

[rspowers]

some ideas....

1. A waiting period to buy a gun. Has this worked in other states?

2. Stricter requirements to buy...for example...education level i.e. high school dipoloma, job stability, certain level of annual income

3. Gun safety course

4. Higher gun prices

5. Much harsher sentences for illegal gun activity

6. only allow the sell of hunting guns

I guess before there are stricter measures though, what are the actual stats on guns that are illegal vs. legal which are used for crimes? I think these statistics would be vital to helping anyone rationally make these types of decisions. For example, it is much harder to get a gun in NJ, how has that worked? Are their preventions working? I think its important to answer these questions first, then go from there with our ideas.

[Emptymag]

Oooh boy. THIS is gonna get interesting!

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by rspowers

some ideas....

1. A waiting period to buy a gun. Has this worked in other states?

No, it hasn't. Gun control does not work. Say it with me...

2. Stricter requirements to buy...for example...education level i.e. high school dipoloma, job stability, certain level of annual income.

Then it is no longer a right. Should I demand that you have college level English under your belt before you can speak in public? Of course not, even if you couldn't speak or understand complete and proper english, your rights to express your thoughts and ideas are as valid as any other.

3. Gun safety course

Gun safety is not the issue, there is no discernable difference in crime or accidental firearms deaths between states that have mandatory training and those that don't.

4. Higher gun prices

So we create a class not worthy of self defense?

5. Much harsher sentences for illegal gun activity

What about illegal knife activity, or illegal vehicular activity? Is a murder utilizing a knife or car any less heinous than one using a gun?

6. only allow the sell of hunting guns

Sure, let's just kiss the Second Amendment and the entire reason behind it goodbye. Let's give guns to hunters, I'm sure that's what the framers intended, right? Besides, can you not kill with a hunting gun? Do hunting guns only work on animals?

I guess before there are stricter measures though, what are the actual stats on guns that are illegal vs. legal which are used for crimes? I think these statistics would be vital to helping anyone rationally make these types of decisions. For example, it is much harder to get a gun in NJ, how has that worked? Are their preventions working? I think its important to answer these questions first, then go from there with our ideas.

Gun control does not, and has never worked to combat crime, only fighting crime fights crime.


www.gunfacts.info
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html
http://www.fed-soc.org/debates/dbtid.9/default.asp
http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com...givetothem.htm

Suggested reading on this site:
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/general-2...amendment.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/general-2...re-voting.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/general-2...-gun-laws.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/news-123/...-inquirer.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/national-...amendment.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/national-...nt-debate.html

[WhiteWolf]

It seems we need an english lesson:

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law
Main Entry: in·fringe
Pronunciation: in-'frinj
Function: verb
Inflected Forms: in·fringed; in·fring·ing
Etymology: Medieval Latin infringere, from Latin, to break, crush, from in- in + frangere to break
transitive verb : to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another <the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed —U.S. Constitution amendment II>; especially : to violate a holder's rights under (a copyright, patent, trademark, or trade name) intransitive verb : ENCROACH —in·fring·er noun

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

[ExCopInPhilly]

+1 to NineSeven and dgg9

1. A waiting period to buy a gun. Has this worked in other states?

A waiting period to buy guns only serves to limit the numers of "crimes of passion", and crimes of opportunity. Both of which, make up a very small number of violent crimes, in that motive, opportunity, married with the ability to purchase a handgun at the time of the incident are minimal.

2. Stricter requirements to buy...for example...education level i.e. high school dipoloma, job stability, certain level of annual income

This is just wrong on every front. The perfet example of everything wrong about that are the Jim Crow laws related to freed slaves voting. Exclusion for any of those reasons is wrong as a whole.

3. Gun safety course

I am not opposed to gun safety courses, as a whole, but what is to preclude the criminal from taking the gun safety course?

4. Higher gun prices

Criminals do not buy guns from gun shops or reputable sales organizations. It will do no good to change the cost of guns, because that will only hurt the law-abiding citizen.

5. Much harsher sentences for illegal gun activity

Of course, we all agree on that!

6. only allow the sell of hunting guns
ABSOLUTELY NEVER, this again will not stop the criminals fom getting their hands on guns, and will leave the law abiding citizenry unable to defend themselves.

No amount of gun legislation will hurt the criminal element other than stiffer penalties for the use of firearms in the commission of crimes, and stiffer penalties for straw purchases. I have even rethought my position on ammunition purchases, because it will hurt me, the law abiding citizen, much more than it will even affect the criminal.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by ExCopInPhilly

A waiting period to buy guns only serves to limit the numers of "crimes of passion", and crimes of opportunity. Both of which, make up a very small number of violent crimes, in that motive, opportunity, married with the ability to purchase a handgun at the time of the incident are minimal.

IMO, the key requirement in any such debate is to examine cost AND benefit.

Will "waiting periods" reduce "crimes of passion?" Possibly. But they will also reduce the ability of people to defend themselves against sudden threats, like an ex-spouse stalking.

2. Stricter requirements to buy

How much more strict can it be than what we have now, in terms of PICS?

3. Gun safety course

I am not opposed to gun safety courses, as a whole, but what is to preclude the criminal from taking the gun safety course?

Here, too: things like mandatory courses or other financial/hassle obstacles put in the way of buying mean more poor people can't buy and they are precisely the people who need self defense the most.

Again, restrictions are not "free" -- they always have adverse effects.

[rspowers]

You guys bring up some good points, and I was just thinking off the top of my head without reading any statistics on what has and has not worked.

So I guess the question probably should be:

What do we think is going to happen in the next 5 years regarding gun control? 10 years?

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by rspowers

What do we think is going to happen in the next 5 years regarding gun control? 10 years?

The federal level depends entirely on the next POTUS, who commands a soapbox and can set agenda at the federal level. The state level activity depends on your state's demographic and political trends.

[RoyJackson]

Although I disagree with most of rspowers' ideas....at least he or she is thinking...please do not answer sacastically...


One nice thing about PFOA is this forum is relatively civil (compared to some I've read) and I think most posters have good intentions...not necessarily workable, but they are offering up suggestions rather then whining.