People have too many rights

[TRB]

At the funeral home the other day I was in a conversation with my cousin's wife. At one point she touched on the crime committed at Virginia Tech last spring. She made an assertion that it is a ridiculous that someone can purchase a gun without a psychological exam. She said that, "The problem in America today is that people have too many rights. Anyone can get a gun. Why is that?"

I looked at my wife. She rolled her eyes and began to chuckle under her breath. I said that the Constitution states that you can have a gun. The cousin's wife then proceeded to say that she would just as soon have the PSP take care of things. I pointed out the SCOTUS ruling as to police responsibility to the community and we talked about realistic response times. She said she knew all about it and that she had taken and passed the 235 class when she worked security a number of years ago. At that point, given our location and grieving relatives close proximity I disengaged.

She's a nice woman, otherwise.

It is ironic that the deceased was a crew chief on a B-26 crew in Africa and Italy during WWII.

[secretbard]

Unfortunately, there are still a great many people in this country that feel that way... even after Katrina. They also can't fathom how more guns save lives than take them in any given day. The only thing we as responsible citizens can do is educate.

[rspowers]

Education is key. In NJ it is very tough to get a gun, in PA it is easy. I am not sure what they do on the background checks or what the Red Flags not to sell are. Mine took 5 minutes and I was a little scared that I could buy a gun that quick. I wonder what the proven gun regulations are that actually have been shown to prevent crimes and save lives. Does a waiting period actually work? Are more crimes committed with illegal firearms than legal ones? I dont know, but as gun control becomes tighter, as I predict will happen in the future (I mean they wont even sell certain violent video games in walmart), the regulations need to be proven effective methods that actually work, not just making it illegal to own a gun to protect your home and family.

I wonder what are effective methods to controlling crimes with firearms. Does anyone know any that have been proven effective?

[knight0334]

The only anti-themed law that has helped slightly is the Insta-check system. A denial of sale to those listed as felon's or "other" offenders has limited to a small extent the availability of firearms. However, some of those still have acquired a weapon by other means.

Waiting periods do not work at all. If a BG wants gun, but knows he will be denied at the dealer - he just goes to "Joe Smo" down on the corner and picks one from the trunk of a car. Where as us who know that we are in danger have to wait for a defensive weapon.. unarmed, while the BG is armed. Even if a nonfelon wanted a firearm that bad, he could still go to "Joe Smo" to get his killing tool. ...either way, a convict or nonconvict has access to weapons right away. Waiting periods have only been proven to make defenseless victims.

[Skuggi]

I've just started directing those people to the gun clock

http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/gunclock_index2.html

[PhilA]

Originally Posted by Skuggi

I've just started directing those people to the gun clock

http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/gunclock_index2.html

You attempt to prove the credibility of legal firearms ownership to already closed-minded people by using a poorly-designed website with zero references to anything resembling well-researched and documented fact-based statistics? No wonder there's a credibility gap. Oy.

[Skuggi]

Originally Posted by PhilA

You attempt to prove the credibility of legal firearms ownership to already closed-minded people by using a poorly-designed website with zero references to anything resembling well-researched and documented fact-based statistics? No wonder there's a credibility gap. Oy.

well, hell that's all they use for their anti-arguments, figured maybe that would look more credible to them.

[PhilA]

Thing is, Skuggi, as gun owners we have to have our stuff absolutely buttoned up. We're already the underdog, so any chance we have to make our case means we have to take the high road.

We need to be seen as credible, articulate and rational. Which sometimes means following the old adage: 'Tis sometimes better to remain quiet and let people think you're ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." Not that we should remain moot on issues we feel passionate about, but certain websites/opinions/rants do more harm than good.

[Skuggi]

Originally Posted by PhilA

Thing is, Skuggi, as gun owners we have to have our stuff absolutely buttoned up. We're already the underdog, so any chance we have to make our case means we have to take the high road.

We need to be seen as credible, articulate and rational. Which sometimes means following the old adage: 'Tis sometimes better to remain quiet and let people think you're ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." Not that we should remain moot on issues we feel passionate about, but certain websites/opinions/rants do more harm than good.

I have all that, and have been using it, But people do not want to learn. They do not care. They're right and that's that.

What does it take to change this kind of persons perspective? Well my multiple gigs of information doesn't help. What helps is when they've been put in the situation that the police couldn't protect them. I get people that come to me after they've been robbed, assaulted and raped. I teach them self defense, I also suggest they obtain a firearm. Most of the time before the incident they were also against guns (Not all but a good majority.).

One thing that does work is to make them think, facts they are told are scewed by the other side. Plain numbers, Or a simple senario. I.E. "If I put a gun in your pocket right now, does that rule that you can't have a gun at X place stop you from walking inside?" "If we banned guns today, would a crack dealer also give up his guns? He hasn't given up his crack yet has he?". Plain and simple numbers without any BS around. Something that's like the blogs, from a normal person that they already read and don't believe that this person would lie to them. That's how they think, and if you show them all this professional stuff at first they think it's a very well fabricated lie with everything paid for VIA the NRA.

[TRB]

Originally Posted by rspowers

Education is key.


I wonder what are effective methods to controlling crimes with firearms. Does anyone know any that have been proven effective?

In the USA burglary tends to happen during the day because burglars don't like to get shot.

In merry old England, where gun ownership has been eliminated by statute, burglars ply their trade at will. If the homeowner is home the burglar is unconcerned. The home owner is unarmed.

In Switzerland, where virtually every home has a military rifle and ammunition there is virtually no burglary.

So the basic method is the old saw about gunfight rules:

Rule #1: Have a gun. Just like it is in Switzerland, when there is a gun in every home the crime rate will drop like a rock with a brick tied to it.


As far as effective methods go the answer is to seek training. There are many excellent trainers and classes available. Some will require travel to their home range. Others have an itinerant schedule. For instance, Fire Institute teaches many classes at PMGC outside Pittsburgh year round. OTOH, John Farnam comes to Pittsburgh once a year to train for a couple of days. Depending on where you live there may be a class near you. If you have not trained then a basic handgun defense class is the place to start. If you have received no training ever then NRA basic is a great place to start.
Some resources:

DTI-John Farnam

Fire Institute

Gunsite

Thunder Ranch

Lethal Force Institute