1911 manual no longer needed

[lonewolf5347]

I just got done started about 7PM let see 12.44 am a manual you say(who needs a manual)
I started step by step to strip the frame on the 1911 things were going smooth had a military and a newer version I printed out.
I went page by page all went well:Hey I even installed a Wilson combat trigger and a new sear spring .
I had installed a new 23lbs main-spring in the MSH upgraded to a Wolf 16lb slide and a heavy duty firing pin spring also from Wolf.
I went to the range yesterday and with spring improvement got the trigger pull down around 4 1/2 from 5lbs. excellent no problems.
O.k. back to the manual thing I got the wilson trigger in a little sanding and polishing no problem.I took the new sear out of the box installed it but it all back together and the trigger won't stay cocked(now what_ o.k. strip it down again let see what up here?
I look at played with the sear seem it is in right looks like the sharp end will engage with the hammer edges.I look and look and finally tried to set the sear spring again and found it has to lay on top of an edge of the disconnector;I now cock the hammer and hear the click got it but it all back together check the trigger pull still 4 1/2 pounds not what I want.
You got it strip it again don't need a manual now played with the sear spring and again back together now 3 1/4 pounds man that it gun is finished back up clean up happy as a pig in you know what. WRONG
I found a small problem the safety seem sometime if depressed and the trigger pulled a tad and you remove the hand from the palm safety the trigger will drop the hammer seem the safety if touch seem to set a hair trigger,take it a part again.I was ready to quit and reinstall the factory sear spring and call it quits, one more time reset the sear spring prongs reassembled trigger scale shows 60 oz pull safety works perfect like I said who needs a manual.
I give it a range trial and see if it all works o.k. and a safety test.

[Lycanthrope]

You need to slam the slide home on an empty chamber with a weak grip to check some engagement at least. The hammer should not follow. I'm also surprised you didn't have to recut your thumb safety. Using a different sear than stock often results in a new safety having to be used or cutting/peening the old one. With the thumb safety on pull the trigger and then release the thumb safety...the hammer better not move. Then try to recock the hammer and listen for a little click. If you hear it, the thumb safety no longer has enough engagement.

Grip safety shouldn't hang on the trigger bow...at all.

When you shoot it, only load 2 rounds at a time for testing.

You should be able to get about 3lbs from most stock setups by doing this:

Use a 19lb mainspring. I use a 17lb and CCI small rifle primers and have no issues. Heavier mainsprings tend to increase trigger pull.

Set your trigger return pressure to 10oz. You only need 8oz for .11 splits so 10oz is plenty.
Smooth your trigger bow and sides of you sear and hammer/disconnector with 2000 grit wet/dry paper.
Leave the sear spring alone.......

Or don't. Note: From here on in you're on your own. Messing with the sear pressure and/or the hammer/sear angles can turn your 1911 into one helluva fast machine gun...that won't quit until the mag runs dry.

I cut my own angles with a jig and set my sear springs, but I won't post the details outside of PM.

I applaude the cajones to work on your own gun, but be careful and check your engagement surfaces often.

Lycangetsomegoodgunsmithingbooksthrope

[lonewolf5347]

Lycanthrope: I did all the safety check and when I shoot it will load 2 rounds for a few ends before loading a full clip.
I did not change the sear setup I only replace the sear spring. did a few bends and rechecked with a rcbs trigger gauge now the trigger pull is at 4 lbs or a tad under did some reading on the sear leafs seem equal pressure on left and center spring leaf. I rechecked yesterday dis-connector leaf 10 oz. and the sear leg needed a light bend for 10 oz also.
I did not mess with the sear angle or trigger angles on sear engagement.
I will have to see if I like the Wilson combat trigger over the stock 1911 trigger
seem adjusted correct cock wise on the Allen screw until the trigger won't drop pulling the hammer then counterclockwise until the trigger will drop the hammer then 1/2 turn more.

[Lycanthrope]

OK, if both legs are 10oz, then you have a LOT of frictional losses.....probably coming from that heavy mainspring.

I set the center to 10oz and then the sear leg is usually higher....actually, as high as I can get it with teh desired pull weight I want. With a lighter mainspring and some polishing to reduce friction, you get a light trigger pull without losing good contact on the sear. Go too light on that left leg and she'll go full auto and all you can do is hang on.

With the allen set screw in teh trigger you're setting up your overtravel. You might want to put just a smidge of blue loctite on that so it doesn't work back and turn into a single shot gun at a bad time.

Lycangoodluckthrope

[lonewolf5347]

I forgot to mention I did change the main spring to 23lbs from springers 28lbs
I got the kit from berryhill Dave: is a nice guy who don't mind question he also stated to change the slide spring and the firing pin spring:He stated springer used a garage door firing spring so if drop the gun will not fire I went with a wolf 16 lb slide spring and a wolf heavy duty firing ping spring.
I don't want to get into any problems with stoning the hammer and sear never got into that I find a tad under 4lbs on the trigger pull should be excellent for range and carry:I don't think I will ever carry the 1911 I have my chief 38 snub service gun from the job.
I did notice all the internal moving parts on the mil-spec had no sings of any parts rubbing or binding seem the receiver is well stamped.
I did the leg test as followed installed the trigger dis connector(with out the sear)
then installed the MSH then used the trigger gauge and as soon as the center leg moved I took a reading 10 oz: then I removed the connector and added the sear again MSH and pulled the trigger and watching very close when the sear leg just started to move again 10 oz :did I do it right???
I did some safety test seem to pass with all flying colors
I forgot to mention this mil-spec has a NM serial number and from the research on the number it was assembled on the TRP line in the USA also has a matched barrel and stainless bushing new went for $599.00 I thought it was a good price:funny I had a 20 min: debate seem they had a 1911 Taurus and I have o say I look at a few but this one was a cream tight as a drum but I could not see in giving him $625.00 for the Taurus the springer came home with me.

[Lycanthrope]

You did your pulls right, but I still like more pressure on the sear leg.

A mainspring of 23lbs is still about standard. Not light by any means and I'm surprised a 28lb spring wasn't causing failures. The mainspring soaks up a lot more recoil at times than the recoil spring. I would try a 19lb mainspring and then raise your sear spring pressure up a bit and get the same...or better pull with even more safety margin (assuming the engagement surfaces are all good from the factory).

16-18lbs is the standard recoil spring for a 5" 1911.

Lycanhavefunthrope

[lonewolf5347]

what would recommend on the sear spring leg pressure
sear leg
disconnector leg
I set them up the way the instruction from brownnells seem it say that both has to have the same preesure
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Gun...?p=0&t=1&i=349

[Lycanthrope]

Originally Posted by lonewolf5347

what would recommend on the sear spring leg pressure
sear leg
disconnector leg
I set them up the way the instruction from brownnells seem it say that both has to have the same preesure
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Gun...?p=0&t=1&i=349

I have the same jig and have used Jack's instructions before. I set the trigger return/disconnector leaf to 8-10oz like he does. 10oz feels crisp to me and I kike that.

He recommends 8oz sear leg pressure based on the angles that have been cut. You have no gurantee YOUR gun has the same angles......because it's still stock.

Therefore, I NEVER just set the left leg at a certain weight. There is no real way you can be sure a certain weight is safe. You can work it by trial and error, but it's not for the impatient or unskilled. Both legs do not have to be the same.

That's why I sent you off to try a 19lb mainspring (which will reduce your trigger pull further) and then you can up sear leg pressure to bring you back to about 3.5-4lbs and it will likely be less prone to run away on you. It's just a bit safer that way.

Not saying it's not just fine now....it certainly could be. I just tend to err on the side of caution and never even try to go below 3lbs unless I have prime parts or cut the angles myself. Even then, the best I can muster is a safe and reliable 2.25lbs.

[lonewolf5347]

I am going to try it tomorrow at the range going to load 2 rounds only and see if it goes full auto,if not a few more ends with 2 rounds.I did put it threw all the safety checks and did pass.I still have the original sear spring that was not touched;the worst is like you say reduce the MSH spring to 19 lbs and reinstall the stock spring. I was told the center leaf on the sear spring is the trigger poundage am I correct.
I would like to ask you if I have no problems at the range on Sat. should I leave the first leaf (sear leg) with equal pressure or add a tad more like like 12 oz? or add 12 oz to both?
I thank you so much for all the advise and your knowledge
Rick

[Lycanthrope]

Rick,

Your total trigger weight is determined by a combination of factors:

1.The center leaf (which controls trigger return.....worst case if you go to far is you have a single shot). You can adjust here without worry.

2.The left leaf which controls how much pressure the sear has on the hammer hooks. Too little pressure here and they start to double....or triple....or worse.

3.The mainspring which controls how much presser the hammer is under when fully cocked.

4.The friction of the moving parts and the angles between the sear and hammer. Some sears actually cock the hammer a little bit before they drop it so that can change trigger pull and feel. Lowering mainspring pressure on these guns will really help trigger pull.

So.....the safest things to modify in getting a better 1911 trigger pull are the center leaf spring and polishing up the trigger bow and the sides of the sear and hammer (don't touch the engagement surfaces).

Next.....change the mainspring to a lower poundage.

After that, you can adjust sear spring pressure.....with the understanding that things could go bad quickly.

Sear and hammer angles are not for the novice, but can be learned with enough research and mechanical ability.