Scheduled Instant Check Outage 9/2 - 9/6

[WhiteFeather]

Originally Posted by D-FENS

I could be mistaken but they're giving the NRA way too much credit for the "grassroots" movement in Pennsylvania.

I am appalled that they give the NRA so much credit when it doesn't really do much of anything outside of lobbying and sending out email alerts for legislation it wasn't involved in, regardless of how detrimental the legislation is.

Websites like pafoa.org and organizations like FOAC are what get people together in their respective districts. They're the groups that pull all the weight.

The time of the NRA was pre-internet. That's all over now and the NRA is going the way-side.

Thanks for posting that WhiteFeather.

A+ for understanding the article.

I'm not the shiniest revolver in the gun case, so please understand that I am confused by the above post. WHO is saying what? Bold/colored text/etc...
(and what does " Highlighted PAFOA member Kim Stolfer comments" mean?)

~Confused in Pittsburgh.

Just wanted other that might not know Kim Stolfer is a PAFOA member and that ALL PAFOA members by and large do something about protecting all our rights instead of just giving lip service like most others do.

sorry about all the confusion about different text and colors might has caused Emptymag


You are correct about this article but remember that even this is a landmark event for the AP who in the past has been relatively hostile to us.



It is also import to point to the one paragraph below:

"It doesn't matter if you voted right 9,999 times, they only care about the one vote," said Rendell aide Allen Kukovich, who lost his Westmoreland County state Senate seat in 2004 to a relatively unknown township supervisor, Bob Regola, who was closely allied with pro-gun groups. "And that's what creates paralysis in the Legislature. Legislators become scared about this vote, about that one group."

Kukovich is NOT referring to the NRA but to FOAC. Isn’t it NICE to be remembered?

But a backlash and an unsuccessful court challenge ensued, providing a potent lesson to the state's political leaders about the sensitivities and vigilance of the state's gun rights supporters - and yet another reminder of the challenges faced by gun control advocates in Pennsylvania.

This court battle had nothing to do with NRA, it was 26 gun dealers, ACSL and the same individuals thoughtout the state including Kim Stolfer.

It was not the first time this year that a gun issue has proved explosive in Pennsylvania politics. Back in April, a Philadelphia Democrat's proposal to require gun registration and an annual per-gun fee drew hundreds of angry protesters to a Capitol rally that featured a banner suggesting he should be "hung from the tree of liberty for treasonous acts against the constitution."

Also the April rally mention in article was not formed over HB 760 the press conference for introduction of PRO GUN bills was planed in late Nov 2006 after 55 new elected state Reps changed the balance in the house.

That freaking banner was not a feature nor did it represent anyone views except the two people opinions that held it. How many other banners where there besides that one also most people stood away from sign. It also gave the other side a point to be victims and label all of US in a negative way. What is really frustrating you work for hours on events like this and have some clowns take away all of that positive focus of introduction of pro gun bills. I was there; I had to listen to every freaking interviewer make that the focus of all there questions instead of what the event was about. It could have went any better for the anti-gunners than if those two clowns where change agents or paid by the other side to torpedo our event because it sure did.
I had to personally apologize to rep Cruz over that banner and many other pro gun reps had to make public apologize as well for these two clowns and their freaking sign.

But any effort to address it has to pass muster with the gun lobby, or risk mobilizing the formidable network of its supporters that is poised to respond at the first hint Second Amendment rights could be in jeopardy.

"Of all the groups I've ever dealt with, this by far is probably the most vocal, the most organized and the most politically savvy - communication-wise as well as networking - that I've seen in my time in the Legislature," said 16-term Rep. Tom Caltagirone, D-Berks, chairman of the Judiciary Committee.

Again its all the other PA groups that Rep is refering to, not just the NRA as article implies.

Most all of the rest of the article is the usual anti-gunners complaining about guns being the only problem and never is there any focus ever put on criminals using firearms it always just guns.

I didn’t, nor do I want to turn this into a NRA-ILA bash session but it would be really easy to do it with facts proving their inactions in PA or cutting comprising political deals with your constitutional rights or worse yet profiting from gun control - there are numerous public examples of this in PA by the NRA-ILA.

[WhiteFeather]

Got this one from Allegheny County Sportmen League Sept 07 report written by Kim Stolfer (PAFOA member).

Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) Shutdown: Lessons Learned
On August 31 Pennsylvania gun dealers and the Allegheny County sportsmen's league brought an action for injunctive relief in Commonwealth Court seeking to block the Pennsylvania State Police from shutting down the PICS system. The necessity for this action was crystallized by the inaction of the Rendell administration through the Pennsylvania State Police to abide by Pennsylvania law which provided a clear bypass procedure for the legal sale of firearms should the PICS system become unavailable due to malfunction or other condition.

Ironically, the Pennsylvania State Police filed a brief with Commonwealth Court that included an astounding assertion that Commonwealth Court did not even have jurisdiction over a state agency. While you absorb this creative interpretation of our form of government and accountability of it to the people through the courts, the state Police brief, unlike their public statements, NOW actually agrees with our position that there is a bypass procedure built into the law regarding the sale of firearms when the instant check system becomes unavailable. The judge confirmed this during the hearing as well. What makes the PSP statements in their brief surprising is that in the ad hoc committee meeting just days prior to the trial the Pennsylvania State Police representatives disagreed with our interpretation of the law (a view shared be most legislators and even staff counsel) on the issue of the bypass procedure. Interestingly it seems that while the state Police have no compunction's about manipulating the truth with the elected leaders of the people their knees soften when faced with the reality of filing court documents that could hold them accountable.

While the outcome of the trial was far less than we had hoped for it is important to realize what has been gained by following through with this action. There are four distinct areas benefit gun owners:

• The firearms sales bypass procedure of 48 hours (state law) and 72
hours (federal law) in the event of computer unavailability is legitimate and binding on the PICS operation.
• There was NO NEED to shut the system down for ‘5’ days or even ‘3’ days
to perform this upgrade as it was completed in 31 hours as gun owner
computer experts testified to in Commonwealth Court.
• The NEED for the Permanent Brady Alternative option to allow Concealed
Carry of Firearms permit holders to be exempt from the requirement for
PICS checks when buying a firearm.
• Legislators are questioning the need for PICS altogether and are more
aware of the benefits of transferring these duties to NICS (National Instant Check System).

We now know that the Pennsylvania State Police believe they are unaccountable to at least one level of a statewide court and that they REALLY DO know what the law means irrespective of their rhetoric in the public domain. In fact considering the above one could legitimately question the credibility of the PA State Police administrators with legislators and how susceptible the PSP is to bending to political manipulation.

It is important to keep in perspective the fact that this is the very same agency (the PSP) that claims that retaining records on law-abiding citizens in violation of federal law and state law is only applicable if the records are complete (?) and that the Third Circuit Court of Appeals in federal court can be ignored because the PSP doesn’t agree with what Judge Sanchez said their obligations were concerning notification of gun owners and purchasers as to the voluntary nature of the submission of their Social Security Numbers when purchasing a firearm or applying for concealed carry permit.

When one considers the totality of the lapses in truth and the arrogance in their conduct of operations, the costs associated with their operation of the instant check system (well over $60 million today) it appears clear to us that this agency cannot be trusted to properly manage the responsibilities in these areas or to resist political manipulation.

Pennsylvania is currently a ‘Point of Contact’ state with the National Instant Check System (NICS) which means that while the NICS system is responsible for overall control of the Instant Check process, PA and the PSP are inserted as middle men, essentially, to the background check process. This not only adds numerous unnecessary layers of complexity to the process it also adds duplicative administrative functions. Currently 38 states have vested in the national instant check system the responsibility for performing firearms checks perhaps it is time that Pennsylvania explore this option.

[edstephan]

The one thing the Lessons Learned did not bring up is that the PSP spent $32 million dollars on a system that could have been built and the data migrated while keeping the old system online for 1/10th the amount using current technology.

I have recently designed, built, and installed a 5TB SAN / Server system in a hospital in Central Ohio for $535,000.00. Even if the PSP needed more storage, a 20TB SAN would have only raised the price to $922,000.00. Planning and data transfer would have taken approximately 8 to 10 months at a cost of right around $750,000.00. Even with some additional expenses such as a new backup system for the 20TB (approx. $500,000.00) this gives a total of $2.172 million dollars.

The question I have is: where did the other $29 million dollars go???
The new Supercomputer at Pittsburgh Supercomputer Center with 4,136 processors installed by Cray only cost $15 million dollars.
I have sent this question to Kim and my state Reps.
Ed Stephan

[ironhorse]

I didn't know this before..But that system is used for many other things not just guns purchases.. Found out today that everyone that works at a public school is subject to that as well. Thats why it couldn't be done earlier this year.........

[TheBuckslayer]

Originally Posted by ironhorse

I didn't know this before..But that system is used for many other things not just guns purchases.. Found out today that everyone that works at a public school is subject to that as well. Thats why it couldn't be done earlier this year.........

Yes this was reported in many articles. Fast Eddie says they could not shut it down over the summer, as many schools hire over the summer.

I work for a school district.

When offered the position, I had to go to 2 web sites. First one I had to pay and it did an instant check. ( PICS) I had to pay $10, then provide info. I was then given a paper to turn over to school district.
The second site was a form to print and fill out. Basically it did a national check, more indepth and you had to provide every residence in the last 10 years. You had to provide names of every child that lived with you in the last 10 years. After filling this out you mailed it with a check ( $10 i think) and 14 business days later it came back, for you to provide to the school district. While I was waiting for this paperwork to return, on any given day, the PICS part could have been done, as well as the required physical. They did not care which order you did them in.
Only after all paperwork was provided, did the school district vote for hiring me AT THE NEXT MONTHLY MEETING.
So as you can see, they could easily have done the pics outage during the summer.