Can we share pistols on our permits??

[deth502]

musta' missed that line.

guess your right, but i always thought it was ok as long as its not concealed.

[peter15317]

Regarding the question of registration of handguns let me make this comment. I am not an attorney, but a former county sheriff told me years ago that PA does not have handgun registration; the fact that purchase records can be used to trace gun ownership is not registration, it is a law enforcement tool for tracking a weapon. Registration implies a duty by an owner of a weapon to register it.

I moved here from another state. I learned this when I went to "register" the handguns I moved here with. I did not, at that time, have a carry permit. The county sherrif back then told me that there is no mechanism to register a pistol that someone already legally owned when they moved to PA. I would imagine the same is true if your Dad or Grandpa dies and you inherit a handgun from them.

Besides, how often, during a routine stop in which an LEO encounters a civilian with a carry permit does he trace back the ownership (as long as the civilian wasnt doing anything illegal and showed his permit to the officer)? Have any of you guys heard of such a case? I have never. On the other hand, I am in semi rural Washington County, and maybe those of you who live in Philadelphia or its suburbs, or in Pittsburgh, are encountering that sort of ownership checking.

[Pa. Patriot]

Pete, your right. As has been pointed out here there is no official registration. A lot of folks throw that word out there incorrectly.
But you'll also take note that a lot of use use the term de facto registration.
Becasue that is what it actually is.

[Steve in PA]

Originally Posted by peter15317

Besides, how often, during a routine stop in which an LEO encounters a civilian with a carry permit does he trace back the ownership (as long as the civilian wasnt doing anything illegal and showed his permit to the officer)? Have any of you guys heard of such a case? I have never. On the other hand, I am in semi rural Washington County, and maybe those of you who live in Philadelphia or its suburbs, or in Pittsburgh, are encountering that sort of ownership checking.

There is a thread over on AR15.com in the Hometown section under PA of a person who was stopped up in Hawley (near Scranton). The person had a permit, but when the officer ran the handgun, there was no record found. Well, there was no record because he bought it outside of PA many years ago, then moved to PA.

The LEO took his weapon claiming he was in violation for having an "unregistered" handgun in PA.

I told the person the LEO was full of BS and to deman his handgun back. Supposedly he was told they are waiting to see what the DA has to say today.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

The LEO took his weapon claiming he was in violation for having an "unregistered" handgun in PA.

This is consistent with what I've been saying, that volunteering that you have a legal handgun in the vehicle is NOT a good idea, because there is a percentage of cops who will seize your weapon on any pretext. They seem to think that guns are different than all other property, since they wouldn't seize your car just because it was registered to your neighbor, or seize your briefcase "just to run the numbers and see if it's stolen". They wouldn't put cuffs on you "just for everybody's safety" so you don't punch them during the stop, but they will seize your firearm and put it on the roof or in their cruiser.

Guns have special Constitutional protection, but too many LEO's treat them as though there were a special Constitutional exemption and you have no property rights in them.

When stopped, if you can remove the firearm from your person before the officer walks up, do so. Stick it in the glove box, under the seat, wherever, so that if you have to get out of the vehicle it won't be on you. Yes, the "furtive moves" may make the cop nervous, but you have to find your license, registration, and proof of insurance anyway. Then stick both hands on the steering wheel and wait.
Refuse to allow any search of your vehicle.
If asked about any weapons in the vehicle, state honestly that there is nothing illegal in your vehicle and you refuse to waive any of your rights under the Constitution.


There's also this little gem, from the UFA (6111.1):

(4) The Pennsylvania State Police and any local law
enforcement agency shall make all reasonable efforts to
determine the lawful owner of any firearm confiscated by the
Pennsylvania State Police or any local law enforcement agency
and return said firearm to its lawful owner if the owner is
not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm. When a
court of law has determined that the Pennsylvania State
Police or any local law enforcement agency have failed to
exercise the duty under this subsection, reasonable attorney
fees shall be awarded to any lawful owner of said firearm who
has sought judicial enforcement of this subsection.

Since we don't have "registration" (wink wink) of guns in PA, the citizen should quickly submit copies of any purchase receipt to prove his ownership. In the absence of any contrary evidence, the cops should turn the weapon over to him. If he has to file a petition for return of property, the judge can make the PD pay his attorney fees under this statute. Most cops are unaware of this, and simply directing them to the statute can sometimes cause them to return the gun.

[Archiver]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

No, it is not.

READ the statute. It is very clear.

Loaning, lending firearms is ILLEGAL unless one of the exceptions apply.

Those eligible to own firearms are not listed as an exception.




Ref: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...1.015.000..HTM

Thanks for clarification! They MUST have a LTCF (exemption of section 1).

That student subsection was confusing me but its clear now. ;-)

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Archiver

That student subsection was confusing me but its clear now. ;-)

Yes, it can be. Especially with the way the formatting ended up with the cut-n-paste of the statute
It's a little easier to follow here: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...18/00.061..HTM