Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
HB2011 and HB1243 Updates

So far, there hasn't been a 2nd Consideration vote on either of these bills. WE NEED TO KEEP UP THE PRESSURE, and continue to contact our legislators - ask them to tell House leadership to bring these bills to a vote! Ask them to vote YES on HB2011, and NO on the Universal Background Check amendment. In addition, the FOAC is requesting support for an amendment proposed to HB1243 (Mental Health Records for Firearms Purchases) that, if passed, will allow HB1243 to restore firearm rights to those who have recovered from a mental illness.


For more information and updates on these efforts,
CLICK HERE

For legislator contact information,
CLICK HERE


Go Back   Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Discussion > General

Notices

General General firearm-related talk that does not fit into any of the other forums.

PAFOA Sponsors Businesses that provide financial and technical support to PAFOA. PAFOA Shopping Partners A percentage of all sales made through these partner links goes to PAFOA.
Arms Dealer Logo

Arms Dealer — Free Firearm Classifieds, Gun Shop & Shooting Range Reviews

Arms Dealer is your one-stop shop for free firearm classifieds, gun shop & shooting range reviews.

Join today to start buying, selling and reviewing!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old December 6th, 2009
Warpt762x39's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location:
Easton, Pennsylvania
(Northampton County)
Age: 30
Posts: 2,885
Rep Power: 916
Warpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Robinson Arms

I started getting curious the last few days about two rifles made by Robinson Arms. First the XCR. From what I've read it was designed to go against the FN SCAR in competition for the military contract but lost. The second is the M96. Sort of a modernized Stoner 63 I guess.

My question is, does anyone on here have any experience with either of these rifles and if so how do they compare to say an AR, the SCAR or even a Sig556?
__________________
Reply With Quote

Thanks for visiting our forum! If you ever plan to return you should consider quickly registering for a forum account, especially if you're in Pennsylvania. It's simple to do and best of all free. Once registered you'll be able to participate in our discussions and keep up to date on issues important to Pennsylvania firearm owners!

  #2 (permalink)  
Old December 7th, 2009
Active Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location:
lawrence co., Pennsylvania
(Lawrence County)
Posts: 121
Rep Power: 1170
gator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Robinson Arms

The owner of the co., I think his name is Alex Robinson, is an ass.

They were the sole importer/distributor for the excellant Vepr line of AKs when they first came in the country. As good as the Veprs were, Robinson arms customer service SUCKS. They would not even sell you extra mags.
They told people for over a year the mags were on a ship on the way to this country, but they never came. I had to call repeatedly over a 7 month period to get a manual for the rifle I bought that was not included in the box.
I bought 2 of the Vepr .308s., 2 of the best guns I ever owned. But could only get 2 ten round mags each for them, and when Robinson peeded the Russians off and they quit selling him the Veprs, they refused to service or provide parts for the guns they already sold.
I have heard the 96 is an excellant rifle, but based on Robinsons past customer service an over all atitude I would not deal with them.

There were long running threads on other boards discussing their customer service also. If you belong to any of these run a search on them.

If I were going the 5.56x45 route, right now, in my opinion the Sig is the top of the line for the money, and Sig as a co. has a long, solid, reputation.

Last edited by gator39; December 7th, 2009 at 10:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old December 7th, 2009
DPB's Avatar
DPB DPB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Altoona, Pennsylvania
(Blair County)
Posts: 401
Rep Power: 135
DPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Robinson Arms

I'm a known DI AR guy, but the following is as objective as I can make it.

Robinson Armament has been advertising rifles for going on ten years. I go to every gun show I can get to, every gun shop I pass on the road, work at a gun shop sometimes, and shoot with a cast of characters that owns a SCAR, literally dozens of ARs and AKs, HKs and clones, and pretty much every commercially available individual military arm produced since WW1.

Despite all this, do you know how many M96s or XCRs I've seen in the past 10 years? One XCR, this past summer at the Harrisburg show. Price was $2300ish.

There are some guys talking them up on the internet, but production capability seems to be about nothing. Which means that parts and accessories are virtually non existent.

It could be the Holy Grail of rifles, but with stats like that (and what Gator said), it doesn't do me any good.

I think the SIG is probably a decent rifle, although there is a lot of reliable chatter right now that SIGs QC has taken a nosedive. The issues with parts and accessories also apply, but to a much lesser extent than for an RA, since SIG is actually able to put rifles on the shelf some folks are making stuff for them.
__________________
PREPARE FOR BATTLE
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old December 7th, 2009
Active Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location:
Chalfont
(Bucks County)
Posts: 103
Rep Power: 13
cyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Robinson Arms

I have the complete opposite experience of the above posters granted I have only been a XCR owner for a week or so. I picked up a used XCR off the classifieds here. I was going to purchase a new one and just stumbled on the used one for sale. I have put a few hundred rounds through it last week and only issue I had was with the old style gas valve nut coming loose which probably was my own fought for not tightening it up enough.

I emailed Robinson and there customer service person could not be any more helpful. She Offered for me to send the barrel in and she could replace the gas block and piston with the new style or send me out a new one and I could do it my self. I opted to do it myself and had the parts in 3 days. Needless to say I had some difficulty installing the new gas block and I am shipping the barrel back to them but hopefully I will have it back by the end of the week.

One of the main reasons I went with a XCR is because I heard and read about there great customer service.
As for seeing them around you need to also keep in mind that they are a small company and I imagine there are not more then 5000 or so XCRs out there so you might not see them all over the place My XCR is around 2 years old and is in the 1000 serial number range
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old December 7th, 2009
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Pennsylvania
(Westmoreland County)
Posts: 4,541
Rep Power: 58382
TonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond reputeTonyF has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Robinson Arms

John Farnam has been a big fan of the Robinson Arms product line but he then sent out some info from the owner about the XCR that seems to contradict claims of "robust" and "reliable".

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/23Sept09.html

If I had to "tweak" my Colt AR15's in like manner, I wouldn't own them.
__________________
Tony
412.310.7838
http://www.fireinstitute.org

"... there's trained and untrained" (Denzel Washington -- Man on Fire)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old December 7th, 2009
DPB's Avatar
DPB DPB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Altoona, Pennsylvania
(Blair County)
Posts: 401
Rep Power: 135
DPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond reputeDPB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Robinson Arms

Quoted from the site TonyF referenced:

"I could make a 'fool-proof' rifle by welding-in the ejector, affixing the barrel bolt, and eliminating gas adjustment, but much of the XCR's elegance and grace would be lost."


I'm not a smart guy, but I'm pretty sure that "fool-proof" is a much higher priority on a "robust, military weapon" than "elegance and grace."
__________________
PREPARE FOR BATTLE
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old December 8th, 2009
Warpt762x39's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location:
Easton, Pennsylvania
(Northampton County)
Age: 30
Posts: 2,885
Rep Power: 916
Warpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Robinson Arms

I don't have too many problems dealing with even wretched customer service people, as I've been in customer service since I was 15 and can deal with pretty much anybody, so that's a none issue for me.

I'm just curious if the XCR or the M96 is worth the time and money to purchase. Are they reliable? Is quality at least as good as a Chinese SKS? Are they accurate? Do they take AR magazines or do they take magazines of their own design? Easy to disassemble and put back together?

On a side note, is it worth searching out a Sig 550, or is the Sig 556 a better gun?

I've seen conversion kits for the Sig 556 reciever to turn it into a 550 so I was curious as to how they compare as individual guns.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old December 8th, 2009
Active Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location:
Chalfont
(Bucks County)
Posts: 103
Rep Power: 13
cyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to beholdcyclesteel is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Robinson Arms

Again I do not think you will have any problems with their customer service. I just ordered a bunch of spare parts to keep on hand like I do with my ARs and the CS rep was super friendly and everything was in stock.

Keep in mind this is from my limited experience with the XCR ( just over a week)

Bolt and piston are similar to the AK and in my opinion breaks down similar also.
You push the spring in. The upper swings up and you pull the bolt, carrier and piston rod out. If you want to break it down further it takes another minute or so to push out the front pivot pin ( just like an AR). Then just loosen the barrel screw and the barrel and gas tube come right out. Assembly is just as easy. They do recommend that you torque the barrel screw to 200 inch lbs but you really only need to pull the barrel if you are doing a caliber change. It is not something you need to do to clean the gun

The XCR takes regular AR mags. I used a mix of USGI and Pmags and had no issue.

Quality seems to be decent. I will say this The fit and finish is better then my Colt 6920

I have only taken it to a indoor 25 yard range. From my experience my groupings where better then with my 6920.

Once I get some more rounds through It I can probably give you a better opinion. But right now I am pretty happy with it.

Check out the XCR forums there is a ton of good info
http://xcrforum.com/


Like you I was also contemplating picking up a Sig 556 classic and my local gun store had a used unfired one the shelf for $1199. But I kept on reading about Sigs lack of QC and problems people are having with there 556s and from my experience dealing with Sig last year with issues on a new p239. I did not feel like dealing with then again. And the fact I seem to have bad luck when it comes to purchasing guns. ( I seem to always get the one bad one out of million or so made) I did not want to take the chance.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old December 8th, 2009
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
(Philadelphia County)
Posts: 1,013
Rep Power: 21919
Willie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond reputeWillie D has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Robinson Arms

The M96 is no longer made and probably not supported. Robarm's 'old' website is still up and makes it look like they still sell m96s and Veprs which is not the case. They've since decided to focus soley on the XCR.

I've read a lot of good reviews and a few serious criticisms. One of our members chewed me out for posting complaint from elsewhere about the finickyness of the barrel attachment...


The overall concept of the rifle is good, although I'm not sure it's any better than the Daewoo K2's 30 year old design.




Alex Robinson drew some flack last year for supporting Romney but I suppose you get thrown out of Utah if you don't vote Mormon.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old December 8th, 2009
Active Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location:
lawrence co., Pennsylvania
(Lawrence County)
Posts: 121
Rep Power: 1170
gator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond reputegator39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Robinson Arms

[quote=Willie D;1005698]The M96 is no longer made and probably not supported. Robarm's 'old' website is still up and makes it look like they still sell m96s and Veprs which is not the case. They've since decided to focus soley on the XCR.)



This sounds just like the attitude I experianced from them.

They import and promote, and manufacture and promote 2 rifles /lines and then they abruply discontinue them an seem to leave their customers stranded.

Not good.

For the money there are much better choices out there from solid companys.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Robinson Arms M96 Underfolder config. ickmann General 0 August 29th, 2009 08:21 PM
Robinson Arms VEPR .223 AK47 variant Greguw General 0 June 12th, 2009 06:18 AM
Robinson XCR or Sig 556? reels18 General 33 April 12th, 2009 10:10 AM
boycott Robinson Arms fultonCoShooter General 115 February 14th, 2008 09:53 PM
Robinson Arms UPDATE on wikipedia fultonCoShooter General 1 January 7th, 2008 01:39 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Marketing Services provided by MergeMedia.
Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops