I was disarmed by a police officer

[MiniDevil]

Originally Posted by TheHighChild

I'm no expert and I probably shouldn't even be chiming into this thread but that is ridiculous. Have you considered filing a complaint with the department? Did you have a choice to whether he disarmed you.

We all have rights against unreasonable search and seizure. I think this falls into that somewhere, considering you're permitted.

When you are pulled over, it is considered a temporary arrest. Thats why if you try running from the police it is resisting arrest. Being under temporary arrest gives them the right to disarm you. Being under arrest does not give them the right to search your vehicle/house/property without a warrant, probable cause, permission, etc

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by MiniDevil

When you are pulled over, it is considered a temporary arrest.

Rule10b5 can answer this better, but I don't think you are being "arrested" in any form -- this intermediate step is called being "detained." "Arrested" implies all sorts of things that are not present in a traffic stop. "Detained" simply means you and your vehicle are not free to go for a reasonably short duration of time. I could be wrong, though.... ETA: there is a distinction between detain vs arrest, but I'm not really sure which a traffic stop falls under. Ok, I'll stop guessing here...

[djturnz]

Originally Posted by dgg9

Rule10b5 can answer this better, but I think you are being "arrested" in any form -- this intermediate step is called being "detained." "Arrested" implies all sorts of things that are not present in a traffic stop. I could be wrong....

Mainly your Miranda Rights.

[dgg9]

Take these for what you will:

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/cri...ice_stops.html

..though I'm not sure what real difference it makes in this scenario.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by djturnz

Mainly your Miranda Rights.

But you can be arrested without Miranda rights being declared, if the police have no intention of questioning you.

The crux of the difference, as I, a layperson, understand it is: while in both cases (detention vs arrest) you are not free to go, in a "detention" you are being held for a relatively short period of time, with the expectation of being released shortly. With an "arrest," you no longer have any expectation of being released. Thus you are detained, while the LEO calls in your plate, and gives you your ticket. You were not arrested in that scenario. He can, of course, decide to upgrade the detention into an arrest.

[RandomTask]

Originally Posted by TonyF

If the occupant would happen to be a wanted felon, probability is high they would shoot the LEO at first chance. That's why I don't believe being disarmed during a traffic stop is over the top.

If that's the case, the officer would be fired upon before he even got a chance to ask the question.
Also, do you think a violent fugitive would answer "yes" to the question if it got that far?

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by wewo

So it is kinda silly to ask about a weapon, a felon will either shoot first or lie, whereas a law abiding citizen (excluding traffic violations) will answer honestly and therefore should not need to be disarmed because law abiding citizens do not shoot other than in self-defense. Certainly a felon will not have a valid LTCF. Just pointing out the apparent flawed logic, I do not necessarily disagree with disarming in that situation, I'm still on the fence. The disarming was for a very short duration and perhaps reasonable so I am not too concerned about search and seizure violations.

What you're failing to consider is an individual's emotional or mental state. Normal people can and do freak out when confronted by law enforcement either out of fear, nervousness, or having never been stopped for a traffic violation or arrested for anything, etc.

It's not unusual for some people to come undone and lose it. I recall watching one of those police shows with a dash cam where a trooper was simply issuing a ticket for speeding or some minor traffic code violation and the driver of the car went totally ape shit crazy. Not threatening, but completely went off the deep end emotionally.

LEO's have no idea of a given person's mental state or mental / emotional capacity.

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by djturnz

I replied, "yes sir, I have a gun on my hip, on my ankle, and my permit is in my wallet.

That was your first mistake. The correct response is to be evasive. "officer, i have nothing illegal in my car or on my person." If he doesn't accept this answer or asks you to get out of the car, your SOL and should tell him.

I know too many people who were assaulted by police or held at gunpoint for handling the situation as you did. If you can avoid telling the cop you're armed, this is always your best course of action

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by RandomTask

If that's the case, the officer would be fired upon before he even got a chance to ask the question.
Also, do you think a violent fugitive would answer "yes" to the question if it got that far?

Maybe a better way to make my point is that these situations are highly unpredictable and can be extremely volatile.

For either side in this discussion to try and nail down conditions or circumstances an LEO "should" or "should not" exercise extreme caution during a traffic stop would be an exercise in futility.

Traffic stops are EXTREMELY dangerous. Period.

[1FingrCHan]

Originally Posted by TonyF

What you're failing to consider is an individual's emotional or mental state. Normal people can and do freak out when confronted by law enforcement either out of fear, nervousness, or having never been stopped for a traffic violation or arrested for anything, etc.

It's not unusual for some people to come undone and lose it. I recall watching one of those police shows with a dash cam where a trooper was simply issuing a ticket for speeding or some minor traffic code violation and the driver of the car went totally ape shit crazy. Not threatening, but completely went off the deep end emotionally.

LEO's have no idea of a given person's mental state or mental / emotional capacity.

It is called Pavlov response, I heard. I think some people are conditioned to feel uncomfortable when the red and blue is behind their vehicles, he he heh.

There are suggestions by some police anti-corruption websites like this
http://potw.news.yahoo.com/s/potw/40...s-watching-you
that recommends the people should have on dash cameras and microphones in their cars, just in case.

I would guess that this is one way for people to have peaceful encounter with cops without the nervousness (about the cops who step a little above the law), he he hehh



1FingrCHan